tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post7921843512912713869..comments2023-10-16T13:06:42.360+01:00Comments on Happiness of Being: The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: Other than ourself, there are no signs or milestones on the path of self-discoveryMichael Jameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-6358525287492232962015-01-13T22:50:08.798+00:002015-01-13T22:50:08.798+00:00Thank you, Michael James, for your reply. Thanks t...Thank you, Michael James, for your reply. Thanks too for the advice that most Hindu rituals are to view them primarily as an expression of respect and love.<br />I should have emphasized that my question in which way I could spiritually benefit from participating in the mentioned rituals at Bhagavan's shrine just did not exclude the aspect of losing the illusion that we are this ego.Karthikainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-71612870351579001912015-01-13T21:48:02.827+00:002015-01-13T21:48:02.827+00:00R Viswanathan,
Thanks to you for the given informa...R Viswanathan,<br />Thanks to you for the given information (3 December 2014 00:39)about Sri Nochur Venkataraman.Karthikainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-79882848385953154282014-12-05T09:04:32.092+00:002014-12-05T09:04:32.092+00:00Thank you, Josef. Yes, I meant to type ‘is’, so ‘i...Thank you, Josef. Yes, I meant to type ‘is’, so ‘in’ is a typo, and the whole paragraph should have been:<br /><br />We are following this path because we have understood from Bhagavan that we cannot be the body, mind or person that we now seem to be, since we experience our existence even in their absence in sleep, and that we therefore need to investigate ourself in order to experience ourself as we really are. Because we have learnt all this from Bhagavan, we naturally feel great love and respect for him, so if we visit the shrine where his body is interred we will express our love and respect in whatever way seems most appropriate to us. If you feel any of the rituals that are performed there are a suitable way of expressing your love and respect, you can participate in them, or else you can just sit quietly in his presence.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-80493389899438456602014-12-05T00:18:11.215+00:002014-12-05T00:18:11.215+00:00Michael,
your yesterday's comment about Hindu ...Michael,<br />your yesterday's comment about Hindu rituals to Karthikai, second last paragraph, fourth line:<br />You wanted to write:<br />".....so if we visit the shrine where his body is interred we will express our love and respect....."<br />There is a typo: instead of "in" we should have "is".Josef Brucknernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-61642798171195527962014-12-04T15:54:19.748+00:002014-12-04T15:54:19.748+00:00Karthikai, most Hindu rituals such as the ones you...Karthikai, most Hindu rituals such as the ones you mention in your comment of <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2014/11/other-than-ourself-there-are-no-signs.html?showComment=1417598531649#c2822320074273715884" rel="nofollow">3 December 2014 09:22</a> are intended to be an expression of respect and love, so it is better to view them as such rather than thinking of them in terms of any gain or benefit.<br /><br />If we worship God for any gain or benefit, what we are actually expressing love for is not God himself but only whatever gain or benefit we hope to obtain from him, so it is best to put all thoughts of gain or benefit out of our mind, particularly when we visit Bhagavan’s shrine.<br /><br />If we are trying to follow the path of <i>ātma-vicāra</i> taught by Bhagavan, we are doing so in order to free ourself from the illusion that we are this ego, so we are not actually going to gain anything but to lose everything (except what we really are, which we can obviously never lose). Therefore in order to follow this path we need to give up all ideas of personal gain — because the person who could gain anything is an illusion and is therefore not what we really are — and to think instead in terms of the joy of being relieved of everything.<br /><br />We are following this path because we have understood from Bhagavan that we cannot be the body, mind or person that we now seem to be, since we experience our existence even in their absence in sleep, and that we therefore need to investigate ourself in order to experience ourself as we really are. Because we have learnt all this from Bhagavan, we naturally feel great love and respect for him, so if we visit the shrine where his body in interred we will express our love and respect in whatever way seems most appropriate to us. If you feel any of the rituals that are performed there are a suitable way of expressing your love and respect, you can participate in them, or else you can just sit quietly in his presence.<br /><br />Personally I am not particularly interested in elaborate rituals (though I respect them as things that are meaningful to others), but when I am in the presence of Bhagavan’s shrine I like to simply prostrate before it and walk around it (preferably while trying to be self-attentive rather than being distracted by any other thoughts), because for me that is a meaningful expression of the love I feel for him.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-6407000465332667942014-12-04T14:53:55.697+00:002014-12-04T14:53:55.697+00:00Viswanathan, when Bhagavan said that perseverance ...Viswanathan, when Bhagavan said that perseverance is the only true sign of progress, we can infer that he was indirectly implying: ‘If you are truly interested in progress, just persevere in practising <i>vicāra</i>, because that is the only way to progress’. He was not advocating that we should look for any signs of progress, but only that we should persevere in our practice without thinking of ‘progress’ or anything else at all other than ourself alone.<br /><br />There is truly no reliable sign of progress except earnest desire and persistent effort to experience ourself alone, without even the least thought of anything else. So long as we are thinking of progress, we are not attending to ourself and hence not progressing. As Steve wrote in <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2014/11/other-than-ourself-there-are-no-signs.html?showComment=1417604656310#c1334329324201208492" rel="nofollow">another comment</a>, in <i>ātma-vicāra</i> stillness alone is progress, so if we are thinking of progress instead of just silently being as we really are, we are certainly not progressing. Therefore let us give up all thoughts of progress and just try here and now to be what we really are.<br /><br />As you would have understood by reading this article and some of my replies to comments on it, I believe that looking for any signs of progress is not only futile but also a distraction that diverts our attention away from ourself, which should be our only concern and interest, yet in your comment dated <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2014/11/other-than-ourself-there-are-no-signs.html?showComment=1417529954049#c334133619651403391" rel="nofollow">2 December 2014 14:19</a> you quote the final sentence in my comment dated <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2014/11/other-than-ourself-there-are-no-signs.html?showComment=1417468632536#c6523130337494094120" rel="nofollow">1 December 2014 21:17</a> and ask ‘Does this statement qualify to be indicator (or sign) of progress or of one’s position relative to the that at destination?’ No, this was not the intention with which I wrote that sentence, because what I was trying to explain in that comment was only that progress on the spiritual path is not necessarily marked by signs such as ‘a sense of peace’, being ‘no longer disturbed by worldly conditions’ or ‘how happy you’re becoming’, since if we have intense love and yearning to merge in our source, we are liable to experience extreme anguish until such love and yearning are fulfilled, as illustrated by Bhagavan in many verses of <i>Śrī Aruṇācala Stuti Pañcakam</i>.<br /><br />If we were actually burning in such a fire of intense anguish born of unfulfilled love to merge back into our source, our only concern would be to merge in it here and now, so we would not be satisfied merely by thinking that we were making progress, or by anything less than absolutely clear self-awareness. Therefore a devotee in such an advanced state would be so intent on trying to experience what ‘I’ really is at this very moment that he or she would have absolutely no interest in looking for any signs of progress.<br /><br />A sign is something other than what it signifies, and according to Bhagavan we should not be thinking of anything other than ourself, so if we are genuinely interested in experiencing ourself as we really are, we should ignore all thoughts of progress or of supposed signs of it.<br /><br />So long as we think of progress, we are maintaining an artificial distance between ourself and our goal. Our goal is actually nothing other than ourself, so who is to progress where? The idea of progress seems meaningful only to our ego, because for our real self there is neither progress nor anywhere to progress to. Therefore if we identify anything as a sign of progress, we will just be feeding our ego, because so long as we allow ourself to feel ‘I have made progress’, we will be perpetuating the illusion that this ego is ourself. Hence if we are looking for any signs of progress, we are just pandering to our ego and its vanity.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-17277556954854466002014-12-04T02:07:11.070+00:002014-12-04T02:07:11.070+00:00"Robert's advice encourages us to look ou..."Robert's advice encourages us to look outwards in the direction of our mental states and worldly circumstances for 'a sense of peace', 'more happiness' etc. This is looking in the opposite direction so how can it be encouraging us? We may even become self deluded by following such advice?, 'Oh I'm less troubled by worldly conditions these days, I must be really advancing along nicely'. But who is advancing? Only ego, so how does that help?"<br /><br />I understand that essentially, the opposition to Robert Adams' postulates of signs of progress comes from the possibility that they might only result in the increase of ego. Yes, I agree that there is absolutely no substitute for perseverance to self attention. I understand that self attention becomes possible through 1) attention to the feeling of one's existence or 2) attention to ego and trace it to its source, which is the self. So much has been written by Michael James on both. <br /><br />I give below a discussion on ego between an aspirant (SR) and Robert Adams (R)- which I found very beneficial. R insists that no one should believe what he says but find out for themselves whether it is true: <br /><br />SR: Robert, who is the...I know this is back to a question that keeps coming up and probably<br />I know what the answer is going to be from you but I'll ask it again. Who is the author/creator of the ego that did all of this? I mean if you're acknowledging that there is an ego I that exists and we all seem to share it in this room to some degree, maybe it's academic but where did this come from and why? I think a lot of people ask... (R: I know.) Why? Why have it to start with?<br /><br />R: Yes. I'm only acknowledging there is an ego for your benefit. An ego never did exist. It doesn't exist now and the only words I can use to make you understand this is the water in the mirage. When you see water in the mirage you say it's water but when you come up closer and you inspect it, there is no water it's a mirage. The same way that the ego and the world looks real. It appears real because we're so bound in the illusion. Yet nobody created it. It never was created. I admit the finite mind can never comprehend this.<br /><br />How can nothing be created when I see everything with my eyes? It's like hypnosis, you're made to see something that doesn't exist. Why? There is no why because nothing<br />does exist. If it really existed then there would be why. But since it doesn't exist there is noone to say why.<br /><br />To understand this better you have to dive deep within yourself and you will find that you never existed and you do not exist now. Do not try to analyze it, you'll get nowhere, you'll go crazy. This has been my experience. But of course do not believe me why<br />should you. But do the practice. You have to work on yourself until the question is answered.<br />SE: How can that which never existed, practice?<br /><br />R: That which never existed does not practice. But that which believes that it exists<br />practices. So as long as you believe something exists you have to practice until you find out nothing exists and there will be no practice.R Viswanathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/18066293987969833262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-80112839697241887572014-12-03T14:40:29.446+00:002014-12-03T14:40:29.446+00:00Here(below) is another example with Jiddu Krishnam...Here(below) is another example with Jiddu Krishnamurti. This is from an article "The Awakening of Oneself" by Domingos Vieira, a Brazilian, describing his meeting with Jiddu Krishnamurti in 1982 at Saanen in the Swiss Alps, taken from 2011 July edition of the "Mountain Path" journal of Ramanasramam. Now i'm not pasting all of this to demonstrate the mind reading siddhis of Jnanis but just because it shows, as David Godman says, that a lot more goes on between the questioner and the Jnani than the words we read into it one way or the other from the transcripts. Infact the judgment we make on these conversations one way or the other is also made based on our own preconceived notion of right and wrong or which method is right and our mind and intellect so they also can be misleading. To me this actually emphasizes the beauty of Bhagavn's teachings even more which is to just focus on the "I am" feeling as all else is just the imaginings of the mind.<br /><br />/**<br />Some ‘strange’ things happened during the talks. In one of them, I didn’t understand one of the words he used. At once, he looked at me and enumerated some of its synonyms. Mentally, I said ‘I understand now,’ and he continued the talk. Another friend from Brazil told me that he conversed mentally with K during the talks, asking questions and obtaining answers, and I told him I knew what he was talking about.<br />***/<br />Sundarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-91018935717876420292014-12-03T14:17:08.511+00:002014-12-03T14:17:08.511+00:00An anecdote by David Godman
/**
There is something...An anecdote by David Godman<br />/**<br />There is something else that is going on when you sit in front of a true teacher. There is an effortless transmission of peace that stills the mind and brings an intense joy to the heart. None of this will be recorded in the dialogue that is going on between the two of you. It is something very private, and only the two of you are in on the secret. Words may be exchanged but the real communication is a silent one. In such cases the teacher is often reacting to the temporary absence of your mind, rather than the question you asked a few minutes before, but who else can see this? <br /> Let me give you an example from my own experience. In the late 1970s I sat with a little-known teacher called Dr Poy, a Gujurati who lived in northern Bombay. On my first meeting I asked him what his teachings were and he replied, 'I have no teachings. People ask questions and I answer them. That is all.' <br /> I persevered: 'If someone asks you ''How do I get enlightened?'', what do you normally tell them?' <br /> 'Whatever is appropriate,' he replied. <br /> After a few more questions like this, I realized that I wasn't going to receive a coherent presentation of this man's teachings, assuming of course that he had any. He was a good example of what I have just been talking about. He didn't have a doctrine or a practice that he passed out to everyone who came to see him. He simply answered all questions on a case-by-case basis. <br /> I sat quietly for about ten minutes while Dr Poy talked in Gujurati to a couple of other visitors. In those few minutes I experienced a silence that was so deep, so intense, it physically paralyzed me. <br /> He turned to me and said, smiling, 'What's your next question?' <br /> He knew I was incapable of replying. His question was a private joke between us that no one else there would have understood. I felt as if my whole body had been given a novocaine injection. I was so paralyzed, in an immobilized, ecstatic way, I couldn't even smile at his remark. <br /> He looked at me and said, 'There is no such thing as right method, there is only right effort. Whatever technique you choose will work if you follow it intensely enough. You asked for my teachings and here they are: ''Part-time sadhus don't get enlightened.''' <br /> On one level this was a statement that one had to work hard at one's sadhana, but at the same time the experience I was having there clearly indicated to me that it is the powerful presence of the teacher that effortlessly quietens the mind. So much is going on in a teacher-student encounter that is not picked up by other people who are watching it take place. Just about everyone I know who has been with a real teacher has had experiences like this, experiences that have little or nothing to do with the words that were going backwards and forwards. <br />****/<br />Sundarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-23029864330657547122014-12-03T14:16:39.001+00:002014-12-03T14:16:39.001+00:00One of the things I would like to say is based on ...One of the things I would like to say is based on my readings, though we can take a lot of generic stuff that helps us from transcripts or talks with Jnani's we should be very careful not to read too much into individual one on one conversation one way or the other as its very specific answer to the questioner. They are well demonstrated by the following two anecdotes.<br /><br />The one below is by Chalam who was Ramanar's devotee and met him in the 40's and this is from "The Power of Presence"<br />/**<br />I myself witnessed one incident that produced a reaction in Bhagavan that was understood only by two people. A friend of mine called Dharmapuri, who had no faith in swamis, came to see Bhagavan. Having decided not to prostrate to Bhagavan, he spent the whole of his brief visit wandering around the ashram instead of sitting with Bhagavan in the hall. In the evening, as it was summer, Bhagavan's chair was placed outside near the well. Bhagavan came and sat on it and all the devotees sat on the floor near him. Dharmapuri was wandering in the area at the time. When he saw Bhagavan sitting there, he felt an irrepressible desire to prostrate before him. His determination not to prostrate vanished as he fell full length at Bhagavan's feet. Bhagavan noticed his performance and laughed loudly. None of the devotees, except for me, knew why Bhagavan had suddenly laughed. Everyone else was looking around, trying to ascertain the cause of Bhagavan's laughter.<br />***/<br /><br />I'll add another apt anecdote by david Godman in my next comment as it doesn't fit in here.<br /><br />Sundarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-13343293242012084922014-12-03T11:04:16.310+00:002014-12-03T11:04:16.310+00:00With regard to atma-vicara, progress = stillness.
...With regard to atma-vicara, progress = stillness.<br /><br />If our focus is on progressing, we can be certain we're not.Stevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-79342269618864067042014-12-03T10:32:06.974+00:002014-12-03T10:32:06.974+00:00"As for David Godman and Nochur Venkataraman,..."As for David Godman and Nochur Venkataraman, do they really have more authority than anyone else? Why should we be at all interested in what their respective views may or may not be in this regard?"<br /><br />I agree that these two also may not have more authority than anyone else. <br /><br />Nevertheless, I am interested in their views as much as I am interested in Michael James' views since in my view, these are the three who I revere most to assimilate Bhagavan's teachings in me, apart from Robert Adams. David Godman has already agreed to meet with me, but since Nochur cannot be approached through e-mail or phone, I will have to see whether I have Bhagavan's blessings in order to be able to meet with him in Ramanasramam and also in order that he is able to spend a few minutes with me.R Viswanathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/18066293987969833262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-74169150583778665532014-12-03T09:45:37.959+00:002014-12-03T09:45:37.959+00:00R Viswanathan,
thanks for your reply.R Viswanathan,<br />thanks for your reply.Nilotpalanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-65519943252501967492014-12-03T09:44:26.046+00:002014-12-03T09:44:26.046+00:00R Viswanathan,
much obliged for your response.R Viswanathan,<br />much obliged for your response.Karthikainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-28223200742737158842014-12-03T09:22:11.649+00:002014-12-03T09:22:11.649+00:00Thanks Michael for the given information about Noc...Thanks Michael for the given information about Nochur Venkataraman<br />and Bhagavan's sannidhi(samnidhi),<br />samadhi shrine and the spiritual unlimited omnipresence of 'I am ' in each of us.<br />May I add a question about walking round the samadhi shrine and other hinduistic customs which I have seen at my last visit in Tiruvannamalai ?<br />Ramana's body is there buried and a lingam is erected. Of course people are convinced that Ramana's spiritual presence in the Ashram and in each of us did not come to an end on 14 th April 1950. <br />What is the gain to the devotees for walk or hurry round that lingam ?<br />What is the benefit from seeing and getting the blessed flame(arati)presented by the priest and applying the vibhuti and red powder on the forehead ?<br />What is the spiritual gain from drinking the blessed milk and from the mentioned practice as well as generally the pujas particularly to a westerner in connection with the path atma-vicara ?Karthikainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-44969493016365151892014-12-03T06:10:37.717+00:002014-12-03T06:10:37.717+00:00Viswanathan, Bhagavan's advice regarding progr...Viswanathan, Bhagavan's advice regarding progress, i.e. that perseverance in self attention is the only true sign, was to indicate to us to keep our focus only on 'I' - ourself. That is the best encouragement anyone can give us because it keeps our mind focused on the path and on the goal.<br /><br />Robert's advice encourages us to look outwards in the direction of our mental states and worldly circumstances for 'a sense of peace', 'more happiness' etc. This is looking in the opposite direction so how can it be encouraging us? We may even become self deluded by following such advice?, 'Oh I'm less troubled by worldly conditions these days, I must be really advancing along nicely'. But who is advancing? Only ego, so how does that help?<br /><br />In my view Michael has offered the following not as a sign of progress, but only to suggest we may actually become less at peace the further along the path we go, hence; "As our love to experience ourself as we really are increases, we will feel increasingly disturbed by the illusory condition of experiencing ourself as a body living in this world, and we will recognise that we will be unable to experience real peace or happiness until we merge forever in our real self, the source from which we as this ego have originated."<br /><br />If I try to refute anything at all it is only that which is inconsistent which the simple and clear instructions and guidance of Bhagavan and not based on any other authority. <br /><br />As for David Godman and Nochur Venkataraman, do they really have more authority than anyone else? Why should we be at all interested in what their respective views may or may not be in this regard?Gavin Huxhamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-10140637399536450392014-12-03T01:53:10.307+00:002014-12-03T01:53:10.307+00:00Viswanathan: I had mentioned the Lakshmana swamy i...Viswanathan: I had mentioned the Lakshmana swamy incident that I had mentioned in this blog in an email about progress to David Godman a few days back and here was his reply to me<br /><br />/**<br />I also agree that the mind is in no position to determine whether realisation is near. Lakshman Swamy used to say: 'It is the disciple's job to make the effort and the Guru's job to ascertain the progress. The Guru cannot make the effort for the devotee, and the disciple cannot ascertain what progress he is making.'<br />**/<br /><br />Also, Nochur has mentioned the same aspect many times and he even quotes an example of Sarada Devi where she says that a child is hungry and sleepy and its mother feeds it while the child is sleeping and puts it to sleep and in the morning when the child wakes up it wonders how it got to the bed and Sarada Devi says that spiritual progress is also like that. We may have no clue but we may be progressing.<br /><br />Ofcourse like you said I also think anything that encourages one in this path is good but the only caveat is that sometimes we may be misled that we are making progress looking at such signs and its possible that our ego might increase as well.<br /><br />However I will also eagerly await your answers from Nochur and David Godman.Sundarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-46747611779789353282014-12-03T00:39:54.400+00:002014-12-03T00:39:54.400+00:00Sri Nochur Venkataraman regularly gives discourses...Sri Nochur Venkataraman regularly gives discourses on Bhagavan's teachings for so many years now, and also on Bhagavat Gita, Bhagavatam, and Adhi Sankaracharya. Sri Ramanasramam website gives some discourses by him:<br /><br /> http://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/resource_centre/audio-2/<br /><br />He lives in Thiruvannamalai for many years now near Sri Ramanasramam and is presently giving discourse on Akshara Manamalai in Tamil in Sakara Matam, Thiruvannamalai (from 26 Nov to 4 Dec, 2014 9.00 to 10.30 a.m.) As far as I know he shuns publicity, but his programme listing can be found in website: http://nochursravana.com/<br /><br />I got initiated into Bhagavan's teachings first through listening to his discourses - Bhagavan's grace. There are hundreds of hours of his discourses on Bhagavan available - on Ulladhu Narpadhu, Akshara Mana Malai, Nan Yar, Atma Vidya Keerthanam, Ekanma Panchakam... <br /><br />To me, he along with David Godman and Michael James are the source and inspiration of Bhagavan's teachings, and hence all three are of significance to me. Whatever has gone into my heart (of Bhagavan's teachings) is through what these three wrote or talked, and of course, basically because of Bhagavan's grace. Both David Godman and Nochur have regard for Robert Adams, and hence I began to read his articles and book Silence of the Heart, and I found them very consistent with Bhagavan's teachings, although, my view is disputed by Michael James and some others. <br /><br />Some one asked whether I know that Both David Godman and Nochur Venkataraman will be present in Ramanasramam. Nochur visits Rmanasramam daily, whenever he is in Thiruvannamalai. David Godman, I will have to request by e-mail, and he kindly obliges me everytime I seek his appointment by coming over to Ramanasramam. I hope that this time, too, he does.R Viswanathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/18066293987969833262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-79244867301634968162014-12-02T22:14:31.999+00:002014-12-02T22:14:31.999+00:00Kartikai, I do not know anything about Nochur Venk...Kartikai, I do not know anything about Nochur Venkataraman except what I have heard about him from Viswanathan and occasionally from others. From what I have heard, my impression is that he is a devotee and scholar who gives talks on <i>advaita</i> philosophy as expounded both in ancient texts and by Bhagavan Ramana. Except that he has studied and written commentaries on Bhagavan’s teachings and mentions them a lot in his talks, I do not know of any reason why his explanations should be considered to be of any special significance to us.<br /><br />The Sanskrit word <i>sannidhi</i> (or <i>saṁnidhi</i>, as it is more precisely transliterated) means presence, vicinity or nearness, and is therefore a term that is used to refer to a shrine where a deity is present or where the body of a <i>jñāni</i> is interred. Hence when people nowadays talk of Bhagavan’s <i>sannidhi</i> they are generally referring to his <i>samādhi</i> shrine, but during his bodily lifetime they would usually have meant his physical presence. However the same term can also be used to mean his real (spiritual) presence, which is most intimately present within each of us as our own self, ‘I am’, and which is also omnipresent and hence not limited by time or space.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-63441437308471211362014-12-02T20:57:48.365+00:002014-12-02T20:57:48.365+00:00R Viswanathan,
do you know if both (David Godman a...R Viswanathan,<br />do you know if both (David Godman and Nochur Venkataraman) will be present in Sri Ramanasramam at that time of your visit (16 December 2014) ?Nilotpalanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-405000175194103642014-12-02T14:54:21.163+00:002014-12-02T14:54:21.163+00:00Michael James,
R Viswanathan,
since sometimes Noch...Michael James,<br />R Viswanathan,<br />since sometimes Nochur is quoted<br />please tell me who is it and why his teachings or explanations are of significance to us.<br />May I take Bhagavan's sannidhi as the same as his samadhi shrine ?Kartikainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-3341336196514033912014-12-02T14:19:14.049+00:002014-12-02T14:19:14.049+00:00"As our love to experience ourself as we real..."As our love to experience ourself as we really are increases, we will feel increasingly disturbed by the illusory condition of experiencing ourself as body living in this world, and we will recognise that we will be unable to experience real peace or happiness until we merge forever in our real self, the source from which we as this ego have originated."<br /><br />Does this statement qualify to be indicator (or sign) of progress or of one's position relative to the that at destination?<br /><br />I learnt from David Godman's interview (which I posted as a comment for another article on Jnani), that I should confess that whatever Robert Adams proposed are only signs of progress and not necessarily proof of progress! May be that existence of this uncertainty is the reason why Michael James and many others disputed the validity of Robert Adams' proposals? <br /><br />In any case, if none of us is realized yet, do we really have the authority to totally refute when somebody proposes somethings as signs of progress - just because it did not appeal to us as being proof enough? or just because he proposed various other things, too? If persons like Michael James and David Godman who have spent nearly three decades, almost wholly, on understanding Bhagavan's teachings confess that they are not realized yet, I genuinely wonder what is the harm in taking Robert Adams' list of signs of progress? Sure, they may not be proof of progress, but then as long as it can work as encouragement to continue to travel along the path of realization to the goal of realization, my mind would go with the acceptance of Robert Adams' proposals. <br /><br />I will go to Thiruvannamalai on Dec 16. If it is the will of Bhagavan, then I will have the opportunity to discuss this topic with David Godman and Nochur Venkataraman, the two living persons who I revere as much as I do Michael James. If there emerges some clarity to me, I will share in this blog.R Viswanathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/18066293987969833262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-56679840304850933182014-12-02T11:25:13.114+00:002014-12-02T11:25:13.114+00:00Thank you, Josef.
Yes, as you say in your comment...Thank you, Josef.<br /><br />Yes, as you say in <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2014/11/other-than-ourself-there-are-no-signs.html?showComment=1417474089706#c7021050013194091790" rel="nofollow">your comment</a>, in the last sentence of my comment dated <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2014/11/other-than-ourself-there-are-no-signs.html?showComment=1417468632536#c6523130337494094120" rel="nofollow">1 December 2014 21:17</a> the words ‘this this’ were a typo and should have ‘in this’, so that sentence should have been:<br /><br />As our love to experience ourself as we really are increases, we will feel increasingly disturbed by the illusory condition of experiencing ourself as body living in this world, and we will recognise that we will be unable to experience real peace or happiness until we merge forever in our real self, the source from which we as this ego have originated.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-10837550643154934382014-12-02T01:47:52.841+00:002014-12-02T01:47:52.841+00:00On the measure of progress from Talks with Ramana ...On the measure of progress from Talks with Ramana Maharshi:<br /><br />Talk 49.<br />M.: Progress can be spoken of in things to be obtained afresh. Whereas here it is the removal of ignorance and not acquisition of knowledge. What kind of progress can be expected in the quest for the Self?<br /><br />Talk 73.<br />M.: Does not one find some kind of peace while in meditation? That<br />is the sign of progress. That peace will be deeper and more prolonged with continued practice. It will also lead to the goal.<br /><br />Talk 103.<br />M:Or again, even if instructed by<br />others to do japa or dhyana, they do it for some time, but are always looking to some results, e.g., visions, dreams, or thaumaturgic powers. If they do not find them they say they are not progressing or the tapas<br />is not effective. Visions, etc., are no signs of progress. Mere performance of tapas is its progress also. Steadiness is what is required. Moreover they must entrust themselves to their mantra or their God and wait for its Grace. They don’t do so. Japa even once uttered has its own good effect, whether the individual is aware or not.<br /><br />Talk 132.<br />D.: There must be stage after stage of progress for gaining the Absolute. Are there grades of Reality?<br />M.: There are no grades of Reality. There are grades of experience for the jiva and not of Reality. If anything can be gained anew, it could also be lost, whereas the Absolute is central - here and now.<br /><br />Talk 198.<br />D.: Is the individual capable of spiritual progress in the animal body?<br />M.: Not unlikely, though it is exceedingly rare<br /><br />Talk 380.<br />D.: Do you mean to say that there is no progress?<br />M.: Progress is perceived by the outgoing mind. Everything is still<br />when the mind is introverted and the Self is sought.<br /><br />Talk 427.<br />D.: In the practice of meditation are there any signs of the nature of subjective experience or otherwise, which will indicate the<br />aspirant’s progress towards Self-Realisation<br />M.: The degree of freedom from unwanted thoughts and the degree of concentration on a single thought are the measure to gauge the progress.<br /><br />Talk 439.<br />D.: Vasanakshaya (total end of all predispositions) - Mano nasa<br />(annihilation of mind) - Atma-sakshatkara (Realisation of the Self). They seem to be interdependent.<br />M.: The different expressions have only one meaning. They differ<br />according to the individual’s stage of progress. Dispassion,<br />Realisation, all mean the same thing; also they say ‘practice and<br />dispassion’. Why practice? Because the modes of mind once subside<br />and then rise up; again subside and rise up, and so on.<br /><br />Talk 618:<br />M:The degree of the absence of thoughts is the measure of your progress towards Self-Realisation. But Self-Realisation itself does not admit of progress; it is ever the same. The Self remains always in realisation. The obstacles are thoughts. Progress is measured by the degree of removal of the obstacles to understanding that the Self is always realised. So thoughts must be checked by seeking to whom they arise. So you go to their Source, where they do not arise.<br /><br />Talk 637.<br />There was some question about progress.<br />Sri Bhagavan said that progress is for the mind and not for the Self.<br />The Self is ever perfect.<br /><br /><br />R Viswanathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/18066293987969833262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-70768954894464161802014-12-02T00:52:48.165+00:002014-12-02T00:52:48.165+00:00I looked in Guru Vachaka Kovai whether there is an...I looked in Guru Vachaka Kovai whether there is anything discussed on spiritual progress. I could get only two verses. <br /><br />624. By exposing oneself due to the desire of being praised by others, one is unnecessarily removing one’s protection and creating obstacles to the sadhana one has undertaken.<br />Sadhu Om: The desire for the annihilation of the ego is the<br />right sign of atma-sadhana. But fame and praise are things to be gained only by the ego. Therefore, if one has a desire for fame it means that one does not like to destroy the ego. That is why Sri Bhagavan says that the one who has desire for fame is himself creating obstacles to his sadhana.<br />Therefore, if the atma-sadhana is to progress unobstructed<br />and well protected, it is better for an aspirant to live a life of<br />unknown name and unknown place.<br /><br />819. If one’s conscience, according to which one has<br />[always] been acting, once tells one not to live in a [seemingly] good society, it is better for one to live alone rather than to live in that society, rejecting one’s<br />pure conscience.<br />Sadhu Om: This verse is an instruction given to some good<br />devotees like Sri Muruganar who came to live in the Ashram,<br />believing it to be a favourable environment for their spiritual<br />progress, but who soon had to leave and live alone outside<br />the Ashram, having found for one reason or another that it was not a suitable environment. When a seemingly good society is thus bound by an advanced aspirant to be unsuitable, he should follow his conscience and live alone, and should not continue to depend in any way upon that society.<br />However, it should be noted that in this verse the word ‘conscience’ means only the conscience of an advanced<br />aspirant, which is why it is referred to as a ‘pure conscience’. Since the minds of immature people are often unable to resist their bad tendencies, their conscience may sometimes decide good to be bad and bad to be good, and hence it is not the conscience of such people that is meant here. Rather than being misled by their wrong discrimination, it would be better<br />for such people to follow the advice of their elders.<br />Sri Muruganar: If one’s conscience, being driven by<br />prarabdha, separates and prevents one from living in a good society, it will be better for a wise aspirant to live alone instead of rejecting his pure conscience by trying to live among the same group of people.<br /><br /><br />R Viswanathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/18066293987969833262noreply@blogger.com