tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post4476744628629417943..comments2023-10-16T13:06:42.360+01:00Comments on Happiness of Being: The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: In what sense does Bhagavan generally use the terms பொருள் (poruḷ) and வஸ்து (vastu)?Michael Jameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comBlogger115125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-13167492784550900302018-01-24T21:32:38.165+00:002018-01-24T21:32:38.165+00:00Sanjay Lohia,
self-negligence means failure to tak...Sanjay Lohia,<br />self-negligence means failure to take proper care over our real self. Therefore pramada (self-negligence) is possibly just another word for 'ego'.<br />Only a jnani can state or imply that the ego never has arisen and at most seems to exist. To get on the track of the ego and to solve its mysterious phantom appearance we must get consumed by the light of jnana. <br />meyyin iyalbunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-24183661372007301362018-01-24T16:06:26.631+00:002018-01-24T16:06:26.631+00:00We look for explanations – if the ego doesn’t exis...We look for explanations – if the ego doesn’t exist in sleep, why does it rise in waking or in any other dream? Our mind is always looking for a reason. We want causes for everything, but actually <b><i>there is no cause for the rising of the ego, because the ego itself is the cause for everything else</i></b>.<br /><br />The ego is the first cause. There is no cause preceding the ego. In sleep cause and effect has no meaning at all. What we experience in sleep is only pure self-awareness, which is uncaused. Our pure self-awareness is the basic fundamental reality; it’s the ultimate substance - <i>Ulladu</i>.<br /> <br />People ask Bhagavan, ‘Bhagavan, why did the ego arise?’ Bhagavan says, ‘First see if it has arisen, and if you find the ego you can come and ask me this question’. The ego seems to exist only because we don’t look at it, only because we look at other things. As Bhagavan says in v. 25 of <i>Ulladu Narpadu</i>, ‘if sought, it takes flight’. That is, so long as we are aware of anything else, we seem to be this ego, but if we look back at ourself to see ‘who am I’, we will see that we are just pure self-awareness.<br /><br />~.~ <i>Slightly modified extract from Michael’s video dated 3rd June 2017</i><br /><br />My note: The ego is the greatest mystery, and also the root of all other mysteries – like this world and everything else. But why does this ego arise? Some people think that it arises because of <i>vasanas</i> and some think it arises because of <i>karmas</i>, but these can’t be the case. These <i>vasanas</i> or <i>karmas</i> doesn’t exist independent of the ego. In other words, our ego has to rise first, and only then its <i>vasanas</i> and <i>karmas</i> can function. <br /><br />So a useful explanation is, the ego arises due to <i>pramada</i> (self-negligence). It is a useful explanation, because it shows that we can annihilate this ego only by <i>sada-apramada</i> (unceasing self-attentiveness). However, even this explanation doesn’t fully clarify things, because for whom is this <i>pramada</i>? Obviously, our pure self-awareness doesn’t suffer from <i>pramada</i>, and therefore the <i>pramada</i> can only be for the ego. So our ego has to exist before it can be swayed by any <i>pramada</i>.<br /><br />So as Michael says, ‘there is no cause for the rising of the ego’. However, once it comes into seeming existence, there has to be a cause for its permanent subsidence, and this cause is intense and unceasing self-attentiveness. <br /> <br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-67929005897093368152018-01-24T11:12:41.804+00:002018-01-24T11:12:41.804+00:00Meyyin Iyalbu, you ask, ‘Why is it so difficult to...Meyyin Iyalbu, you ask, ‘Why is it so difficult to snap out of it [the ego]? The answer is quite simple: it is because we are much more interested in things other than ourself – in other words, we are now negligently self-aware. We need to be attentively self-aware and continue being so incessantly until we lose all interest in things other than ourself.<br /><br />It is only when we are aware of nothing other than ourself, which is the infinite awareness that we can give up our ego.<br /><br />As Michael often explains, Bhagavan’s teachings are extremely simple, but we’ll understand its simplicity and directness only when put it into practice. The theories of his teachings are not difficult to understand, but its practice requires great love willingness to turn within. <br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-8463813788948524352018-01-23T23:08:28.982+00:002018-01-23T23:08:28.982+00:00"There are no problems in sleep, but when we ..."There are no problems in sleep, but when we wake up we see all these things, and there are endless problems."<br />So only when we wake up from the nightmare of the ego's dream -rising we will be able to see what we really are by removing the root cause of all problems, the ego.meyyin iyalbunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-73664211914977687682018-01-23T18:11:58.967+00:002018-01-23T18:11:58.967+00:00Because rising as this ego prevents us from being ...Because rising as this ego prevents us from being aware of our real nature it is actually our global nightmare. Why is it so difficult to snap out of it ? meyyin iyalbunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-34934119322530723772018-01-23T17:14:20.546+00:002018-01-23T17:14:20.546+00:00So Michael, since everything is a dream, Syria is ...So Michael, since everything is a dream, Syria is not a problem, North Korea is not a problem …<br /><br />Michael: All these are very-very serious problems. If North Korea sends a nuclear bomb to North America, that’s going to be a serious problem for you, isn’t it?<br /> <br />Devotee: Ha-ha, yes …<br /><br />Michael: Who is going to say these are not serious problems? So long as we are forms, these all are definitely big problems. Because we are a form, we see all these other forms, and all these problems exist. So long as we take ourself to be a body, it will be a great problem, for example, if there is a famine and we have no food to eat. There are no problems in sleep, but when we wake up we see all these things, and there are endless problems.<br /><br />But what is the solution to all these problems? We have to remove the root cause, and the root cause of all these problems (North Korea, Syria, and Donald Trump) is you. It is because you have risen as this ego that you see all these things.<br /><br />The only way to solve all these problems is to wake up from the dream – we have to see what we really are. Problems can only exist if we rise as this ego, but have we ever risen as this ego? Since you have never risen as this ego, there has never been Syria, North Korea, Donald Trump or any of the other things.<br /><br />Our real nature alone is what actually exists, and our real nature, Bhagavan says, is just pure awareness. So that alone is what is real, and <b><i>pure awareness, as Bhagavan says in v. 4 of <i>Ulladu Narpadu</i>, is infinite awareness, and because it’s infinite awareness, it doesn’t see any finite things. All problems are finite</i></b>.<br /><br /># <i>Slightly modified extract from Michael’s video dated 20th May 2017</i> <br /><br /><br /><br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-34386364099245625872018-01-23T16:06:21.542+00:002018-01-23T16:06:21.542+00:00The essence of Bhagavan's teachings in express...The essence of Bhagavan's teachings in expressed by him in verse 44 of <i>Aksaramanamalai</i>, in which he says what Arunachala taught him. Arunachala obviously didn't teach him in words but through silence. What Arunachala taught Bhagavan was:<br /><br /><b><i>Turning inwards daily (repeatedly, constantly) see yourself with the inner eys (the 'inner eye' is our introverted attention), it will be known</i></b>.<br /><br />So that is the essence of Bhagavan's teachings. That is what we have to put into practice. Unless we put Bhagavan's teachings into practice, we are failing to get the real benefit which we can derive from his teachings.<br /><br />+ <i>Slightly modified extract from Michael's video dated 20th May 2017</i> <br /><br />My note: Bhagavan says, 'it will be known'. Isn't it a great assurance! Bhagavan is willing to give us the ultimate treasure, but the question is do we want to receive? We tell him in many ways, 'Bhagavan, please wait as I have all these things to complete'. <br /><br />Of course, Bhagavan is willing to wait, because he knows we will eventually return to him. We have nowhere else to go. Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-28461068128317408982018-01-23T15:22:36.219+00:002018-01-23T15:22:36.219+00:00Ulladu-Unarvu, thanks, yes, it should have been &#...Ulladu-Unarvu, thanks, yes, it should have been 'plants'. Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-53589551819983057022018-01-23T13:55:23.174+00:002018-01-23T13:55:23.174+00:00Sanjay Lohia,
when you say "Even animals get ...Sanjay Lohia,<br />when you say "Even animals get all their nutrition only from plant-based food because nutrition is produced only by pants." you of course have to make an exception of animals like for instance predators/predatory fishes and birds of prey.<br />By the way you mean plants instead of pants.<br />I have read somewhere that Bhagavan Ramana rebuked someone for breaking (small) branches or twigs from trees heedless or whithout care or sympathy. ulladu-unarvunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-30335372416393469222018-01-23T11:59:04.444+00:002018-01-23T11:59:04.444+00:00Ahandai, as long as our ego seem to exist, we can ...Ahandai, as long as our ego seem to exist, we can transcend it by self-investigation, but once we transcend it we will come to know that it was never there in the first place. Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-15697508098461581222018-01-23T11:44:55.300+00:002018-01-23T11:44:55.300+00:00Sanjay Lohia,
perhaps you wanted to write "Se...Sanjay Lohia,<br />perhaps you wanted to write "Self-ignorance exists only in the view of the self-ignorant ego, and therefore it has no real existence".mula avidyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-81746017119041222282018-01-23T11:40:00.278+00:002018-01-23T11:40:00.278+00:00Sanjay Lohia,
presumably our pramada (self-neglige...Sanjay Lohia,<br />presumably our pramada (self-negligence) is caused by our prarabdha karma because the ego rises due our self-negligence.<br />You seem to imply that even transcending our ego is not possible because "there was never any ego in the first place, and all our prarabdha, therefore, was nothing more than a dream."<br />So even our burden of self-negligence is not real but only seeming.<br />But the effort of looking closely at the seeming ego is to be done actually at least from the viewpoint of ajnana.<br /> ahandainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-41228507264444723152018-01-23T11:36:17.951+00:002018-01-23T11:36:17.951+00:00Ulladu-Unarvu, even Bhagavan had to eat plants, an...Ulladu-Unarvu, even Bhagavan had to eat plants, and therefore if plants were sensitive to pain, I am sure Bhagavan would not have consumed it. In fact, Bhagavan advised us to consume only <i>mita sattvika ahara</i>, and by this, we should understand that Bhagavan wanted us to consume a plant-based diet, because only such a diet is truly <i>sattvika</i>. <br /><br />So we do have to eat something to survive, but we have to see how we can get our nutrition by causing the least amount of harm to others. If we think along these lines, we will understand that it is only by consuming a plant-based diet that we can do the least amount of harm to others.<br /><br />Yes, Bhagavan was sensitive to the plants, flowers, and trees around him, but that was only because of his universal love. He saw no others, and therefore he was one with even the plants and trees. However, he didn’t for that matter prohibit anyone from eating their food, which does come from plants. Even animals get all their nutrition only from plant-based food because nutrition is produced only by pants. <br /><br />Someone asked Bhagavan to the effect: ‘Bhagavan, even plants have consciousness, so why do why we eat it?’ Bhagavan replied, ‘Yes, plants have consciousness, but so does the slab you sit on’.<br /><br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-81440020531427378012018-01-23T08:57:28.292+00:002018-01-23T08:57:28.292+00:00Mula Avidya, in my previous comment, please read t...Mula Avidya, in my previous comment, please read the last sentence as: '<b><i>Self-ignorance</i></b> exists only in the view of self-ignorance, and therefore it has no real existence'.Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-64751007047931778762018-01-23T08:17:40.730+00:002018-01-23T08:17:40.730+00:00Mula Avidya, yes, only a tsunami of clear self-con...Mula Avidya, yes, only a tsunami of clear self-consciousness can take us out of our dense darkness of self-ignorance. However, when we come out of this dense darkness, we will come to know that there was never this darkness of ignorance. As Bhagavan says, 'what exists is only <i>atma-svarupa</i>'. Self-insurance exists only in the view of self-ignorance, and therefore it has no real existence. Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-32391177664075686862018-01-23T07:48:37.716+00:002018-01-23T07:48:37.716+00:00Ahandai, no, we don’t rise as this ego because of ...Ahandai, no, we don’t rise as this ego because of <i>prarabdha</i> karma, but because of <i>pramada</i>, which is self-negligence. Our <i>prarabdha</i> comes into existence only when we rise as this ego, so therefore our <i>prarabdha</i> can’t be the cause for the rising of the ego.<br /> <br />We can transcend our ego and its fate only looking at our ego closely enough, because if we do so we will realise that there was never any ego in the first place, and all our <i>prarabdha</i>, therefore, was nothing more than a dream. <br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-58755124970185063012018-01-22T20:01:54.652+00:002018-01-22T20:01:54.652+00:00Sanjay Lohia,
"That is, in our ignorance, we ...Sanjay Lohia,<br />"That is, in our ignorance, we take this waking state to be the state of knowledge or awareness, according to Bhagavan, this is a state of ignorance".<br />If dense ignorance is our fate only a tsunami of clear consciousness can catapult us out of this terrible quagmire/marsh.mula avidyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-61001369383801935132018-01-22T19:42:11.156+00:002018-01-22T19:42:11.156+00:00Sanjay Lohia,
when you say "However, the bodi...Sanjay Lohia,<br />when you say "However, the bodies of plants seem to be slightly different. Though the bodies of plants must have these five sheaths, but their vigyanamya-kosa and mamomaya-kosa seems to be dormant or in a sleep like state. It is because they don’t experience pleasure or pain like we humans,..." you obviously refer to the manomaya kosa or 'sheath composed of mind', which is our mind or faculty of cognition, and the vijñanamaya kosa or 'sheath composed of discriminative knowledge', which is our intellect or faculty of discernment or judgement.<br />Did not Bhagavan point to the fact that plants are quite well sensitive to pain ?ulladu-unarvunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-59415686092520110812018-01-22T19:23:46.088+00:002018-01-22T19:23:46.088+00:00Sanjay Lohia,
"We can never get away from pro...Sanjay Lohia,<br />"We can never get away from problems of one form or another so long as we rise as this ego."<br />When we rise as this ego it happens presumably because of our prarabdha karma.<br />How can one transcend one's fate which is preordained/predetermined/foreordained by God ?ahandainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-61558695106715731392018-01-22T13:16:25.060+00:002018-01-22T13:16:25.060+00:00It is said in Gita, ‘What is day to the sages - to...It is said in <i>Gita</i>, ‘What is day to the sages - to those who see - is night to others, and what is day to others is night to the sages’.<br /><br />That is, in our ignorance, <b><i>we take this waking state to be the state of knowledge or awareness, but, according to Bhagavan, this is a state of ignorance</i></b>. The state of eternal waking is the state where we are asleep to the world forever, and eternally awake to ourself. Now we are asleep to ourself, but awake to all this <i>maya</i>, to all these forms that constitute this world.<br /><br />~X~ <i>Slightly modified extract from Michael’s video dated 20th May, 2017</i><br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-12529962339338855592018-01-21T12:47:03.133+00:002018-01-21T12:47:03.133+00:00The following extract is taken from Michael’s vide...The following extract is taken from Michael’s video dated 20th May, 2017. In this video, Michael has explained the meaning of verse 4 of <i>Ulladu Narpadu</i>:<br /><br />If oneself is a form, which is composed of flesh, the world and God will be likewise; if oneself is not a form, who can see their forms? How? Can the seen be otherwise than the eye? The eye is actually oneself, the infinite eye.<br /><br />At one point there was some interruption in the video, and commenting on this Michael said:<br /><br />Michael: OK, sorry, sorry about the interruption.<br /><br />Devotee: No problem.<br /><br />Michael: All these problems arise because I rose saying, ‘I am this form’, and because of it all these forms, the head phones and microphones and PC’s and all this technology came into existence. <b><i>We can never get away from problems of one form or another so long as we rise as this ego</i></b>. <br /><br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-8410599982516476072018-01-21T11:54:52.214+00:002018-01-21T11:54:52.214+00:00Ulladu-Unarvu, yes, pure self-awareness is the bas...Ulladu-Unarvu, yes, pure self-awareness is the base or our substratum, and it is always there within us, whether or not our thoughts appear or disappear on this base or substratum. However, we do not directly experience pure self-awareness in our waking and dream states, because it is clouded over by our thoughts, and these thoughts obscure and dull our pure self-awareness. Of course, these thoughts can never completely hide our underlying, changeless awareness.<br /> <br />While we dream we do experience various bodies within that dream world. How do we project those bodies, which obviously cannot exist without its cell biology, tissues or whatever? So our ego or mind has this wonderful power to create all this, and while we are experiencing things, everything appears real or convincing. <br /><br />You ask, ‘Another question could be whether (the bodies of) animals and trees/plants or matter have also (five) sheaths’. The bodies of animals are no different from our bodies, so, yes, these bodies are also made up of all the five sheaths. They also have a mind and intellect like us humans. They experience both pleasure and pain like we do, and they also can discriminate between things like we can. <br /><br />However, the bodies of plants seem to be slightly different. Though the bodies of plants must have these five sheaths, but their <i>vigyanamya-kosa</i> and <i>mamomaya-kosa</i> seems to be dormant or in a sleep like state. It is because they don’t experience pleasure or pain like we humans, or they cannot use their intellects like we can use ours. However, we cannot say about these things with certainty, but this is how it seems to me. <br /> <br /><br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-80180962000992976332018-01-20T20:04:30.849+00:002018-01-20T20:04:30.849+00:00Sanjay Lohia,
when you say "We are that which...Sanjay Lohia,<br />when you say "We are that which exist in sleep when we are totally devoid of our body and mind. What remains in sleep is only pure self-awareness, and this is what we actually are." you seem to overlook that pure self-awareness exists not only in deep sleep but also in waking and dreaming.<br /><br />You state "...and in both these states we appear to be awake while these states last. That is, there is no difference between our bodies in waking and dream - the bodies that we experience as ourself in both these states seem to be physical in their respective states, but both are actually nothing but mental images."<br />Because our experiences in waking and dream seem to be only mental imaginations or images, from them we cannot at all draw reliable conclusions about that what really is.<br />Regarding the ego's projection and perception of bodies and the world one may ask how it can project all the molecular structure of biological/biochemical/biophysical cell biology/tissue.<br />Another question could be whether (the bodies of) animals and trees/plants or matter have also (five) sheaths.<br />As you metaphorically and aptly speak by practising self-investigation we expose our inner darkness of self-ignorance to the pure light of self-awareness (atma-jnana).<br />Unless this darkness vanishes our life will be dull like a pebble or block of wood.ulladu-unarvunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-11966900980102593632018-01-20T12:26:34.737+00:002018-01-20T12:26:34.737+00:00In continuation of my previous comment:
In advait...In continuation of my previous comment:<br /><br />In <i>advaita texts</i> it is also indicated that we exist as a causal body (<i>karana-sarira</i>) in sleep. Bhagavan doesn’t agree with this also, because, according to him, everything comes into existence only when our ego comes into existence, and therefore the concept of a causal body also comes into existence only we rise as this ego.<br /><br />Bhagavan teaches us in verse 5 of <i>Ulladu Narpadu</i> that a body is always made up of all the five sheaths (<i>panch-kosas</i>), and that all these five sheaths are included in the term body. So it is clear that no causal body or darkness of self-ignorance (<i>anandamaya kosa</i>) exists in sleep, because just one sheath can never exist in isolation. Whenever we experience ourself as a body, we always experience ourself as a living body, and a body can be said to be living only if it is composed of all its five sheaths.<br /> <br />So what do we understand by the term ‘causal body’ or <i>karana-sarira</i>? Our causal body is our darkness of self-ignorance or <i>anandamaya-kosa</i>, because this is the subtlest form of any body, and the grosser parts of our body cannot exist without this subtlest sheath. The darkness of self-ignorance or <i>anandamaya-kosa</i> is the cause for the appearance of this body and this world.<br /><br />The ego comes into existence by projecting and grasping a body made up of all the five sheaths. However, when the ego subsides in sleep it gives up all these five sheaths, but again covers itself with all these sheaths when it rises again. <br /><br />So when we investigate ourself we expose our inner darkness of self-ignorance to the pure light of self-awareness, and this makes the darkness of self-ignorance vanish, and once this darkness goes, the entire edifice of all other sheaths are also destroyed never to reappear. Thus we experience ourself as we actually are – without any false covering. This is <i>atma-jnana</i>. <br /><br /><br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-72193357343516593422018-01-20T12:19:38.492+00:002018-01-20T12:19:38.492+00:00Bhagavan refutes many of the ideas mentioned in ad...<b><i>Bhagavan refutes many of the ideas mentioned in advaitic-texts:</i></b><br /> <br />In <i>advaita</i> texts it is indicated that our waking and dream states are different from each other, that is, they say that what exists in waking is our gross body and what exists in dream in our subtle body. Nochur also seems to support this view in his talks. I have heard him say that we experience a body and mind in our waking, but experience only our mind in dream, and in our sleep we do not experience either our mind or our body, and therefore by this he concludes that we cannot be this body and mind.<br /><br />Yes, his conclusion is correct and it is the same as Bhagavan’s conclusion that we cannot be this body or mind, because we do not experience both of these in our sleep. We are that which exist in sleep when we are totally devoid of our body and mind. What remains in sleep is only pure self-awareness, and this is what we actually are.<br /> <br />So why does Nochur say that our waking state and dream state are different from each other? I think it is because when he says so he tries to mix his <i>shastric</i> (scriptural) knowledge with Bhagavan’s teachings. Bhagavan has clearly said in <i>Nan Yar, GVK</i> and other places that there is absolutely no difference between our states of waking and dream. In both these states we experience nothing but our mind created mental pictures, and in both these states we appear to be awake while these states last. That is, there is no difference between our bodies in waking and dream - the bodies that we experience as ourself in both these states seem to be physical in their respective states, but both are actually nothing but mental images. <br /><br />(I will continue this in my next comment)<br /><br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.com