tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post4081878811861693846..comments2023-10-16T13:06:42.360+01:00Comments on Happiness of Being: The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: What we need to investigate is not the act of witnessing but the witness itselfMichael Jameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-35076990527699032152019-12-16T21:00:12.156+00:002019-12-16T21:00:12.156+00:00In continuation of my previous comment in reply to...In continuation of <a href="#c2913745998690004611" rel="nofollow">my previous comment</a> in reply to ‘To whom? To me. Who am I?’:<br /><br />Since we are pure self-awareness, what can be easier than to be aware of ourself alone? To be aware of anything else requires effort, because we must rise as ego and thereby project whatever else we may be aware of, whereas to be aware of ourself alone requires no effort at all, because all we need ‘do’ is just be as we always actually are.<br /><br />To be aware of ourself alone seems to us as ego to be difficult and to require effort, but that is only because we have so much desire for and attachment to other things that we are unwilling to let go of them. Therefore whatever difficulty we may experience is entirely of our own making. We are wilfully clinging fast to phenomena, and we complain that it is difficult to let go. How can it be difficult? If we were willing to let go, nothing could be easier.<br /><br />Therefore, as you say, we will recognise how easy it actually is only when we have sufficient <i>bhakti</i> (love to be aware of ourself alone) and <i>vairāgya</i> (freedom from desire to be aware of anything else at all), and we will gradually acquire such <i>bhakti</i> and <i>vairāgya</i> by patient and persistent practice of self-investigation and self-surrender.<br /><br />Regarding your related comment of <a href="#c6437699362874010139" rel="nofollow">14 December 2019 at 11:15</a>, in which you ask, ‘if I am at point A, how can I go to point A, since I have never left it (although I may mistakenly think that I am at a distant point B)’, the only way you can go to point A is to look carefully to see where you actually are, because if you look carefully enough you will see that you are already at point A. Likewise, the only way to be what you actually are is to look carefully to see what you actually are, because if you look carefully enough you will see that you are always what you actually are and were never anything else.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-29137459986900046112019-12-16T20:58:42.847+00:002019-12-16T20:58:42.847+00:00‘To whom? To me. Who am I?’, regarding your commen...‘To whom? To me. Who am I?’, regarding your comment of <a href="#c7072670373639395466" rel="nofollow">13 December 2019 at 07:19</a>, in which you wrote, ‘So I am unable to understand how to make effort to be as I truly am’, what we actually are is just pure awareness, which means awareness that is uncontaminated by even the slightest awareness of anything other than itself, so in order to be as we actually are we just need to be aware of nothing other than ourself.<br /><br />Though we are as we actually are in sleep, the pure awareness that shines alone then does not eradicate ego, because ego is not present there to be eradicated. Ego will be eradicated only when it is aware of itself as pure awareness, which is why Bhagavan defines real awareness in <a href="https://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2017/09/upadesa-undiyar-tamil-text.html#uu16" rel="nofollow">verse 16</a> of <i>Upadēśa Undiyār</i> by saying:<br /><br />வெளிவிட யங்களை விட்டு மனந்தன்<br />னொளியுரு வோர்தலே யுந்தீபற<br /> வுண்மை யுணர்ச்சியா முந்தீபற.<br /><br /><i>veḷiviḍa yaṅgaḷai viṭṭu maṉantaṉ<br />ṉoḷiyuru vōrdalē yundīpaṟa<br /> vuṇmai yuṇarcciyā mundīpaṟa</i>.<br /><br /><b>பதச்சேதம்:</b> வெளி விடயங்களை விட்டு மனம் தன் ஒளி உரு ஓர்தலே உண்மை உணர்ச்சி ஆம்.<br /><br /><b><i>Padacchēdam</i></b> (word-separation): <i>veḷi viḍayaṅgaḷai viṭṭu maṉam taṉ oḷi-uru ōrdalē uṇmai uṇarcci ām</i>.<br /><br /><b>அன்வயம்:</b> மனம் வெளி விடயங்களை விட்டு தன் ஒளி உரு ஓர்தலே உண்மை உணர்ச்சி ஆம்.<br /><br /><b><i>Anvayam</i></b> (words rearranged in natural prose order): <i>maṉam veḷi viḍayaṅgaḷai viṭṭu taṉ oḷi-uru ōrdalē uṇmai uṇarcci ām</i>.<br /><br /><b>English translation:</b> Leaving aside external <i>viṣayas</i> [phenomena], the mind knowing its own form of light is alone real awareness [true knowledge or knowledge of reality].<br /><br />In this context ‘mind’ means ego, because ego is the cognising or knowing aspect of the mind, so what Bhagavan implies in this verse is that in order to be aware of ourself as we actually are we as ego must cease being aware of phenomena and must instead be aware only of our ‘own form of light’, which is pure awareness. And as he says in <a href="https://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2017/09/upadesa-undiyar-tamil-text.html#uu26" rel="nofollow">verse 26</a> of <i>Upadēśa Undiyār</i>, ‘தானாய் இருத்தலே தன்னை அறிதல் ஆம்’ (<i>tāṉ-āy iruttal-ē taṉṉai aṟidal ām</i>), ‘Being oneself alone is knowing oneself’, so by being aware of ourself as we actually are we are thereby being as we actually are.<br /><br />(I will continue this reply in my next comment.)Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-3268634876813360962019-12-16T19:27:34.234+00:002019-12-16T19:27:34.234+00:00Thank you Michael for searching the mentioned obvi...Thank you Michael for searching the mentioned obviously unpublished comment.<br />So now you may remove both my enquiry-comments. Sorry for having demanded your time. anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-58017228145063061682019-12-16T19:09:36.092+00:002019-12-16T19:09:36.092+00:00Anadi-ananta, as you say in your comment of 15 Dec...Anadi-ananta, as you say in your comment of <a href="#c5353730861595748571" rel="nofollow">15 December 2019 at 11:45</a>, I think you must have forgotten to click on the publish button after writing a comment on 13 December 2019 at around 21:14, because I never received any notification about it, and I could not find it either among comments awaiting modification or among the spam. If you remember what you wrote in it, you can write it again.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-2321619531196660302019-12-16T18:53:24.791+00:002019-12-16T18:53:24.791+00:00Michael,
could you please look shortly to my enqui...Michael,<br />could you please look shortly to my enquiry-comment of 15 December 2019 at 11:45 ?anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-34246616368445071172019-12-16T17:14:06.592+00:002019-12-16T17:14:06.592+00:00Thank you Michael for your fine response re. Spira...Thank you Michael for your fine response re. Spira's "idea". I couldn't agree more.. .https://www.blogger.com/profile/03243347924405863536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-286574176181245442019-12-16T17:01:09.776+00:002019-12-16T17:01:09.776+00:00Yo Soy Tu Mismo, regarding your comment of 14 Dece...Yo Soy Tu Mismo, regarding your comment of <a href="#c225311301357094631" rel="nofollow">14 December 2019 at 21:44</a>, in which you quote a passage from Rupert Spira and ask to what extent it is aligned with Bhagavan’s teachings, though it may superficially seem to be aligned, it actually differs from them in a fundamental respect.<br /><br />That is, what he refers to as ‘the pure light of knowing’ is presumably pure awareness, which is our real nature (<i>ātma-svarūpa</i>), but pure awareness is immutable, so it never modulates itself in any way whatsoever. What seems to modulate itself to become mind, body and world is only ego, as Bhagavan implies when he says in <a href="https://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2017/10/ulladu-narpadu-tamil-text.html#un26" rel="nofollow">verse 26</a> of <i>Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu</i>: ‘அகந்தையே யாவும் ஆம்’ (<i>ahandaiyē yāvum ām</i>), ‘Ego alone is everything’.<br /><br />Therefore most of what Rupert wrote or said in that passage is true of ego but not of pure awareness. However, it is not entirely true to say that ego modulates itself to become mind, body and world, because though it may see itself as all these phenomena, it remains the same ego throughout. Ego is everything in the sense that it is the sole substance that appears as all phenomena, so in this respect it is like gold, which is the sole substance of all gold ornaments. When gold is formed into a ring, bangle or necklace, what changes or is modulated is not the gold itself but only its form. Likewise, when ego sees itself as a constantly changing stream of phenomena, what changes or is modulated is not ego itself but only the forms in which it sees itself.<br /><br />Rupert’s failure to distinguish pure awareness from ego is highlighted in the final sentence of this passage, in which he says: ‘However, I always remain myself, unmodified by any of the forms or activities that I assume’. What always remain itself, unmodified by any of forms or activities, is pure awareness, because though ego as the substance and perceiver of all forms and activities is not itself modified by them, it does not always remain itself, because it appears only in waking and dream and disappears in sleep. However, what assumes all forms and activities is only ego and not pure awareness, because they appear only in the self-ignorant view of ego and not in the clear view of pure awareness.<br /><br />Like the vast majority of teachers of <i>advaita</i>, both past and present, Rupert Spira seems to espouse a somewhat diluted and relatively superficial interpretation of it, whereas what Bhagavan taught us is pure and undiluted <i>advaita</i>, so in comparison to most other versions of <i>advaita</i> his teachings are extremely deep and radical, but nevertheless very simple and clear.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-64360793409699115312019-12-16T04:37:16.274+00:002019-12-16T04:37:16.274+00:00Yo Soy Tu Mismo,
As for Rupert Spira's quote...Yo Soy Tu Mismo, <br /><br />As for Rupert Spira's quote you mentioned, it is completely aligned with Bhagavan's teachings. This is what is meant by saguna Brahman and nirguna Brahman. Asunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05375243105817283476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-14802744458518099632019-12-15T23:35:47.531+00:002019-12-15T23:35:47.531+00:00Yo Soy, Spira is one of many theorists who like to...Yo Soy, Spira is one of many theorists who like to share their opinions about certain teachings. Nothing wrong with that, however I do not resonate with his way of presentation. I find his book "The Transparency of Things" mediocre at best.<br /><br />That said, I find most contemporary Advaita Vedanta teacher mediocre, it's the same old rehash mixed with the particular biases of the teacher/author. Knowing what I know now I could have saved a lot of time reading books from these guys.<br /><br />Standard story, someone has spontaneously an experience of subtle levels of mind, called "awakening", and then they feel the urge to share their sudden wisdom with the world. Some even confuse that with manonasa. These books are a waste of time.Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-34012485023585833162019-12-15T21:53:48.463+00:002019-12-15T21:53:48.463+00:00Anadi-ananta, I have replied to your comment of 13...Anadi-ananta, I have replied to your comment of <a href="https://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2019/12/what-we-need-to-investigate-is-not-act.html#c8047601062988197589" rel="nofollow">13 December 2019 at 15:05</a> in a separate article: <a href="https://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2019/12/why-do-we-need-to-distinguish-ourself.html" rel="nofollow">Why do we need to distinguish ourself as ego from whatever person we seem to be?</a>Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-51585723803096908772019-12-15T19:30:12.386+00:002019-12-15T19:30:12.386+00:00In my opinion, Rupert Spira is more aligned with V...In my opinion, Rupert Spira is more aligned with Vedantic traditions like Kashmir Saivism (although one of the most articulate presenters of that) than with Bhagavan's teachings. Subtle differences between the two.<br />Articulate presentation of any kind of teachings is not a requisite to be a sage (whatever that means) or being wise, although sometimes it comes together in a bunch (like Bhagavan's case). Language articulation is primordially a feature of the intellect.Mounahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02416580298727681711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-43592180288393067372019-12-15T19:27:16.783+00:002019-12-15T19:27:16.783+00:00I think what he is referring to is the modulation ...I think what he is referring to is the modulation of the consciousness "I Am" which, ultimately, is the substratum of the Real or Chit aspect from which emerge, as a distortion, the apparent manifest forms, by intermingling the chit aspect with the coarse and insentient of jada (body). And since all manifested forms need consciousness (Chit) to appear as forms, we could conclude what the Heart Sutra tells us when it mentions that: "The Void (substratum) is form and form is Void". Yo Soy Tu Mismohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09470280747360615744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-83223907928725613152019-12-15T17:54:35.017+00:002019-12-15T17:54:35.017+00:00Sanjay,
how do you know whether mother earth is co...Sanjay,<br />how do you know whether mother earth is conscious(ness) or not and that it cannot experience anything ?<br />My question about astrology should have been formulated more accurately, namely if there are actually any connections between the constellation of celestial bodies or the signs of the zodiac and the fate of humanity, fauna and flora, earth and universe. anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-21261494530770947692019-12-15T15:48:50.249+00:002019-12-15T15:48:50.249+00:00Yo soy tu mismo,
"To what extent do you think...Yo soy tu mismo,<br /><i>"To what extent do you think that the following sentence by Rupert Spira is or is not aligned with Bhagavan's Teachings?"</i><br /><br />If I may suggest:<br />It sounds like a pretty good description of the I-thought or ego. Self doesn’t modulate, since any kind of modulation needs space and time to do so, it would have to become limited within those parameters to accomplish that.<br />Like saying that the rope “modulates” into or as a snake.<br />This is yet another “modulation” of the idea that self is the witness of phenomena, which is not in sync with Bhagavan’s teachings.Mounahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02416580298727681711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-80954296854608568532019-12-15T15:39:49.482+00:002019-12-15T15:39:49.482+00:00Anonymous, it depends how you understand "bei...Anonymous, it depends how you understand "being". So considering your comment about "going nowhere" it must be quite different than mine. <br /><br />By the way, 'being' is where the thought "I am the body" originates.Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-25117701772407400552019-12-15T15:34:26.442+00:002019-12-15T15:34:26.442+00:00Yo Soy, that quote by Spira sounds fancy but that ...Yo Soy, that quote by Spira sounds fancy but that is not Bhagavan's teaching, IMO. <br /><br />I.e. "I" doesn't modulate anything, that's just the ego's backdoor justification that it is still somehow involved in any affairs. IMO, somebody who is making comments like that is not a sage.Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-53537308615957485712019-12-15T11:45:50.614+00:002019-12-15T11:45:50.614+00:00Michael,
perhaps I left a comment on 13 December 2...Michael,<br />perhaps I left a comment on 13 December 2019 at around 21:14 UTC. However, it is quite well possible that I forgot to click on the publish-button.<br />You may remove this inquiry-comment in any case if the supposed comment is found or not.anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-90384259694827626532019-12-15T11:37:03.159+00:002019-12-15T11:37:03.159+00:00Anonymous,
just being as permanent state will cert...Anonymous,<br />just being as permanent state will certainly have automatically destroyed the "I am the body"-idea.anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-52499578364932836642019-12-15T11:30:30.925+00:002019-12-15T11:30:30.925+00:00Yo Soy Tu Mismo,
in the quoted statement there is ...Yo Soy Tu Mismo,<br />in the quoted statement there is no clear distinction between self and ego.<br />Ego-mind of course is the modulating subject, but "I" as the pure self-awareness cannot be supposed as doing anything let alone modulations of the mind.anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-21266346636794403192019-12-15T07:26:11.175+00:002019-12-15T07:26:11.175+00:00Anadi-ananta, sometimes back you wrote, ‘Are also ...Anadi-ananta, sometimes back you wrote, ‘Are also animals and plants or even mother earth submitted to something similar in effect as prarabdha?’ Animals are definitely governed by prarabdha because animals are no different to us, humans. Animals are also egos. On the other hand, there is no prarabdha for mother earth because prarabdha means predestined experiences, and some entity should be there to experience such predestined experiences. In our case, our ego as an entity experiences these predestined experiences. One needs to be conscious to experience anything, but since mother earth is not conscious, it cannot experience anything, including prarabdha. <br /><br />What about plants? Do they experience prarabdha? Even though plants are sentient in one sense, but their sentience is quite different to our sentience. The plants do not experience things as we do because they do not possess a central nervous system. Plants may respond to external stimulus but they do not experience pain and pleasure like we do. However, we cannot say with certainty what takes place within the plants. However, according to my understanding, plants do not experience prarabdha. <br /><br /><br />You also asked, ‘Does astrology have any actual influence over humanity, fauna and flora and earth and universe?’ Astrology is a science, and genuine astrologers can predict quite accurately the happening of the future. However, we should have nothing to do with astrology because our concern is not with the future but with the present. Who are we now who wants to know about our future? So Bhagavan’s path compels us to stay away from such unnecessary curiosity about our future. Even if we are able to know about our future, how will such knowledge help us? Can we change our future in any way? According to Bhagavan, we cannot because whatever is to happen cannot be changed in any way. <br /><br />So we should have nothing to do with astrology. We do not want to know or change our future, but we want to destroy our future. That is, if we investigate the reality of our presence, we will find that we alone exist, and therefore past, present and future have no existence whatsoever.Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-54789286450032651432019-12-14T23:03:47.861+00:002019-12-14T23:03:47.861+00:00Anonymous, you said "Bhagavan says world is a...Anonymous, you said "Bhagavan says world is a dream and at the same time he says world is nothing but self."<br /><br />Yes, that's correct. A dream is within self as is the world. However there is no distinction in reality. <br /><br />There is only self. How can there be anything independent from self? That is impossible.<br />Of course there is the paradox that an object is within self and also self but only with undivided awareness. If an object is seen as seemingly independent (like a body for example) then it is not real in the sense that it is [incorrectly] perceived separately from self. <br /><br />IMO many people spend a lot of time trying to figure out certain paradoxes which stem from the Absolute. It is better to look for the one who wants to know or who doubts or who questions Bhagavan's seemingly contradictory statements.Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-55438666058190915952019-12-14T22:42:25.224+00:002019-12-14T22:42:25.224+00:00Yeah I am obsessed with that idea since the very e...Yeah I am obsessed with that idea since the very existence of us in this world is dependent on that idea. I doubt just being will automatically destroy that I am the body idea. We have to question where and how that thought originated.. otherwise we will just go nowhere. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04435289281370413861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-63454236382389413012019-12-14T22:30:34.917+00:002019-12-14T22:30:34.917+00:00I agree with your last paragraph. That mysterious ...I agree with your last paragraph. That mysterious force is typing the comments and at the same time doesn’t know that typing is happening. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04435289281370413861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-2253113013570946312019-12-14T21:44:41.289+00:002019-12-14T21:44:41.289+00:00Anadi Ananta, Salazar, Michael...
To what extent d...Anadi Ananta, Salazar, Michael...<br />To what extent do you think that the following sentence by Rupert Spira is or is not aligned with Bhagavan's Teachings?<br /><br />MODULATIONS, YET UNMODIFIED:<br /><br />I, the pure light of knowing, modulate myself in the form of thinking and seem to become a mind; I modulate myself in the form of sensing and seem to become a body; I modulate myself in the form of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting and smelling, and seem to become a world. However, I always remain myself, unmodified by any of the forms or activities that I assume.<br /><br />Rupert SpiraYo Soy Tu Mismohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09470280747360615744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-48064941598455267522019-12-14T20:06:36.650+00:002019-12-14T20:06:36.650+00:00To whom? To me. Who am I?,
since you have never le...To whom? To me. Who am I?,<br />since you have never left point A but mistakenly think that you are now at a distant point B - as long as you are seemingly in the grip of maya - you must seemingly return to point A.:-)anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.com