tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post8410986371825194948..comments2023-10-16T13:06:42.360+01:00Comments on Happiness of Being: The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: Why should we believe what Bhagavan taught us?Michael Jameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comBlogger154125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-6738120066892924642020-04-05T16:02:01.162+01:002020-04-05T16:02:01.162+01:00Michael,
In your comment of 11 February 2016 at 20...Michael,<br />In <a href="https://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-should-we-believe-what-bhagavan.html?showComment=1455222140518#c7147564860536239849" rel="nofollow">your comment of 11 February 2016 at 20:22</a> you answer the question of which of the two simultaneous events - our rising as ego, and our becoming aware of other things - is the cause and which is the effect. <br /><br />In paragraph 3 you say, " it seems clear to me that our rising as this ego is the cause, because our ego alone is what is aware of other things, so in order to be aware of other things we must rise as this ego." and in paragraph 5 you say, "Another reason why our ego must be the cause and our awareness of other things the effect is that our ego is the experiencer whereas other things are phenomena that it experiences. Without an experiencer, there could be no experience, so causally (though not necessarily in time) our ego must precede each one of its experiences (that is, each of the phenomena that it experiences)." <br /><br />It is clear from your comment (in which you also give a third reason) why our rising as ego is the cause and our becoming aware of other things is the effect. But I am unable to see the difference between the two reasons I quoted above. They seem to be the same to me. Can you please clarify? Thanks.Rajathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10446174099698255476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-32851361336903955902020-04-04T19:51:03.420+01:002020-04-04T19:51:03.420+01:00anadi-ananta, thank you very much for the helpful ...anadi-ananta, thank you very much for the helpful suggestion and the research. These articles will be very useful to read.Rajathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10446174099698255476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-30873405994680616862020-04-04T16:04:16.060+01:002020-04-04T16:04:16.060+01:00Rajat,
you may read also some posts sorted by rele...Rajat,<br />you may read also some posts sorted by relevance for query 'attentively self-aware' which are shown by searching in the box at the top left-hand corner :<br /><br />Monday, 12 October 2015 Why is it necessary to be attentively self-aware, rather than just not aware of anything else?<br /><br />Monday, 19 October 2015 Self-investigation (ātma-vicāra) is just the simple practice of trying to be attentively self-aware<br /><br />Sunday, 3 May 2015 Being attentively self-aware does not entail any subject-object relationship<br /><br />Tuesday, 17 November 2015 Is there more than one way in which we can investigate and know ourself?<br /><br />Monday, 7 October 2019 Is it possible for us to attend to ourself, the subject, rather than to any object?<br /><br />and many other articles...<br /><br />(you may also follow the advice/information on the left side, quite above the Articles Archive: Search this blog:<br />The search box at the top left-hand corner of this page will only search for words in the articles, not in the comments, so if you want to search this entire blog, including the comments, you can use the following search box, which will do a Google search and return all the results in a separate tab: Search this site...Search)<br /><br />anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-20391981104870929332020-04-04T13:42:16.458+01:002020-04-04T13:42:16.458+01:00Michael,
In section 6 you say "Our ego is sel...Michael,<br />In section 6 you say "Our ego is self-negligent because it chooses to attend to other things rather than to itself". But isn't ego said to be also always self-aware; even when ego chooses to attend to things other than itself, can it thereby escape being self aware? I do not understand the difference between being self aware, negligently self aware and attentively self aware. Because to be self aware is to know that I Am, simply that I Am. Are there degrees of clarity with which I can know that I Am? Can you please explain the difference between being self aware and being attentively self aware? Thank you.Rajathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10446174099698255476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-63522978019529018682016-04-23T17:45:18.380+01:002016-04-23T17:45:18.380+01:00Michael,
section 7. Bhagavan's use of deductiv...Michael,<br />section 7. Bhagavan's use of deductive and inductive logic<br /><br />I give the subject into further consideration,<br /><br />"How probable is the inductive inference …, and that no world seems to exist whenever our mind does not seem to exist, as in sleep ?"<br />"But what about the probability that any world exists when our mind does not exist ?"<br />"…this invariable concomitance suggests very powerfully that the existence of any world depends upon the existence of our mind."<br />" …what he implied was that according to the principles of inductive logic we have a very strong reason to infer that no world exists independent of our experience of it." <br /><br />That logical inference is surely correct. <br /><br />"However, their premise that we are not aware in sleep is false, because we are aware of our own existence then, so if this world exists then we should be aware of it also. All that exists in our awareness in sleep is ourself, so since no body or world exists in our awareness then, we can inductively infer that they do not exist at all when we are asleep."<br />At this point that inductive inference seems to be inappropriate.<br />First we have to examine if the two premises<br />a.) 'All that exists in our awareness in sleep is ourself' and <br />b.) 'so since no body or world exists in our awareness then' <br />are correct or there is some mistake :<br />It is our all experience in sleep that we are not aware of any body or world.<br />But why should we (can) conclude that no body or no world exists at all in our awareness then ? Why should be the awareness of anything the same as the existence of that (anything) ? Where has the body/mind/world gone or how could it has been dissolved or how else has lost its existence at the very occurence of sleep ?<br />Before going further we should have evidence of the correctness of that above assertion/statement.invariable concomitancenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-34784569159691806002016-04-20T21:42:50.871+01:002016-04-20T21:42:50.871+01:00Michael,
sorry about error:
I wanted to write:
......Michael,<br />sorry about error:<br />I wanted to write:<br />...does not at all compel to infer that then any body or world does not exist in waking and dream state.invariable concomitancenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-67292118582716262702016-04-20T21:17:14.647+01:002016-04-20T21:17:14.647+01:00Michael,
section 7. Bhagavan’s use of deductive an...Michael,<br />section 7. Bhagavan’s use of deductive and inductive logic<br />Indisputably I do not now experience myself as the one infinite and indivisible self-awareness that according to Bhagavan I actually am.<br />So I need to be convinced that this self-awareness is what I actually are.<br />I am quite fond to get/be convinced by/of that ‚truth/reality‘.<br />As you say I feel that my motivation (bakti) to investigate myself needs to be overwhelmingly strong. Therefore my bakti should be built on a solid well-grounded foundation of firm conviction. In order to get sufficiently strong motivated to investigate myself and thereby to experience myself as I really am I reflecting the following: <br />It seems to be true that we can develop true bakti and vairagya (freedom from desire to experience or be aware of anything else) only by persistent practice of self-investigation. According to Bhagavan we should consider that the existence of everything other than ourself depends upon the existence of our ego, which is our illusory experience 'I am the body'. It is reasonable for us to suppose that there is a causal connection between our experience 'I am this body' and the appearance of anything else in our awareness.<br />How probable is the inductive inference that Bhagavan asked us to draw from the fact that a world seems to exist whenever our mind seems to exist, as in waking and dream, and that no world seems to exist whenever our mind does not seem to exist, as in sleep ? But what about the probability that any world exists when our mind does not exist ? The mentioned invariable concomitance suggests very well the mutual dependence/interdependence.<br />Regarding the questioned reality of the world admittedly according to Bhagavan the world was never seen without the aid of the mind. Accordingly there is some reason to infer inductively that no world exists independent of our experience of it. But that inference is not flawless. In contrast (against) to that daring conclusion I have to make an objection which is not at all "flawed". It becomes clear that we cannot a priori be aware of this world while we are asleep because our senses are not functioning then. On the contrary : if it is true that in deep sleep is no/ (we are not aware of any) body, mind or a world (anything else other than ourself) and we therefore are not anything other than simple self-awareness, then consequently we cannot expect of our then mind-free self-awareness to be aware of any world or/and everything other than ourself. The fact that no body or world is perceived by our awareness in deep sleep does not at all compel to infer that then any body or world exists in waking and dream state. Rather no conclusion is permitted to be drawn from that evidence alone.<br />Bhagavan surely had not to rely on logic conclusion because he might have seen/known the reality by virtue of his direct all-embracing/comprehensive consciousness(omniscience), so he did not need to use any logical reasoning to convince himself of the truth of what he experienced. <br />On the other hand can we not from the daily experience of the sense-perception of the body and the world in waking and dreaming conclude or reasonable suppose that the body/world experience is side by side also real as our simple self-awareness ? We may thereby consider that sense-perception is only possible with the help of our self-awareness.invariable concomitancenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-13442375459689944902016-03-25T13:21:46.049+00:002016-03-25T13:21:46.049+00:00Thanks, Michael. I appreciate your efforts to be t...Thanks, Michael. I appreciate your efforts to be true to Bhagavan's teachings. It is really admirable and worth learning from. I tend to be less critical than you, but I guess that is only due to my intellectual laziness.Viveka Vairagyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-43981438074247220282016-03-24T16:38:08.782+00:002016-03-24T16:38:08.782+00:00Viveka Vairagya, I have just posted a new article,...Viveka Vairagya, I have just posted a new article, <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/why-is-it-necessary-to-make-effort-to.html" rel="nofollow">Why is it necessary to make effort to practise self-investigation (<i>ātma-vicāra</i>)?</a>, in which I address some of the very confusing and misleading ideas expressed by Poonja (‘Papaji’) about the practice of <i>ātma-vicāra</i> in the extracts from the <a href="http://www.satsangbhavan.net/main.htm" rel="nofollow">Satsang with Papaji</a> website that you quoted in two of your comments, <a href="#c2414117748420699137" rel="nofollow">this one</a> and <a href="#c7845347281661466466" rel="nofollow">this one</a>.<br /><br />What I wrote in this new article also applies to a lesser extent to what Poonja said in another extract that you quoted in <a href="#c629998345770172469" rel="nofollow">an earlier comment</a>, in which he seemed to contradict himself by saying that incessant vigilance is needed but that one should not make effort, because we obviously cannot be incessantly vigilant unless we make effort to be so.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-60510305760368796032016-03-16T11:15:37.761+00:002016-03-16T11:15:37.761+00:00Anonymous, as I promised in the comment I wrote in...Anonymous, as I promised in the <a href="#c3584168104601757775" rel="nofollow">comment</a> I wrote in reply to <a href="#c3270622560045620548" rel="nofollow">your comment</a> asking about Bhagavan’s teaching that we are aware of ourself in sleep, I have replied to it more fully in a new article that I have just posted here, <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/03/we-are-aware-of-ourself-while-asleep-so.html" rel="nofollow">We are aware of ourself while asleep, so pure self-awareness alone is what we actually are</a>. This entire article is intended to be a reply to your doubt, but I replied specifically to your comment in section 5, <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/03/we-are-aware-of-ourself-while-asleep-so.html#adjuncts" rel="nofollow">The importance of distinguishing our permanent self-awareness from our temporary awareness of adjuncts</a>, and section 6, <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/03/we-are-aware-of-ourself-while-asleep-so.html#time" rel="nofollow">Pure self-awareness is a timeless experience, so we are not aware of time while asleep</a>.<br /><br />In section 14, <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/03/we-are-aware-of-ourself-while-asleep-so.html#un13" rel="nofollow"><i>Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu</i> verse 13: real awareness is ourself, whereas awareness of other things is ignorance</a>, and section 15, <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/03/we-are-aware-of-ourself-while-asleep-so.html#forget" rel="nofollow">We can never forget ourself completely, because though as this ego we have forgotten <i>what we are</i>, we are always aware <i>that we are</i></a>, I have replied to some ideas expressed by Poonja in a passage quoted by Viveka Vairagya in <a href="#c2414117748420699137" rel="nofollow">one of his comments</a>, and in other sections I have replied to some of the comments on one of my other recent articles, <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-role-of-logic-in-developing-clear.html" rel="nofollow">The role of logic in developing a clear, coherent and uncomplicated understanding of Bhagavan’s teachings</a>, including the <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-role-of-logic-in-developing-clear.html#c3089028994646447255" rel="nofollow">first comment</a>, which may have been written by you, in sections 7 to 10.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-58167324963750383472016-03-01T08:31:54.260+00:002016-03-01T08:31:54.260+00:00Yuvaraj, in some of my other articles, particularl...Yuvaraj, in some of my other articles, particularly in <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2015/04/witnessing-or-being-aware-of-anything.html" rel="nofollow">Witnessing or being aware of anything other than ourself nourishes our ego and thereby reinforces our attachments</a> and also in <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/the-need-for-manana-and-viveka.html#nisargadatta" rel="nofollow">The teachings of Sri Ramana and Nisargadatta are significantly different</a>, I have discussed what Nisargadatta teaches about the practice of ‘witnessing’ thoughts or events.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-38512608543138921672016-03-01T03:48:14.419+00:002016-03-01T03:48:14.419+00:00Michael,
I learnt much from Sri Nisargadatta'...Michael,<br /><br />I learnt much from Sri Nisargadatta's teachings and it prepared me for Bhagavan's teachings. But having then arrived at Bhagavan's teachings I did see that some of Sri Nisargadatta's teachings conflicted. For example, across Sri Nisargadatta's teachings there is regular use of the term "witness" which interfered with my understanding of Bhagavan's teachings.<br /><br />YuvarajYuvarajnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-39001996322643609282016-03-01T02:22:29.582+00:002016-03-01T02:22:29.582+00:00Dear Michael,
Fair enough, in the light of reason...Dear Michael,<br /><br />Fair enough, in the light of reasons you give I admit that what Nisargadatta Maharaj is advocating may not be doable.Viveka Vairagyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-8578040155939824932016-02-29T15:13:51.101+00:002016-02-29T15:13:51.101+00:00In continuation of my previous comment in reply to...In continuation of <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-should-we-believe-what-bhagavan.html#c5202493379239091231" rel="nofollow">my previous comment</a> in reply to ‘Viveka Vairagya’:<br /><br />In the next sentence of this passage Nisargadatta says, ‘Identify yourself with the consciousness, which dwells in the body; with that identity, you should act in the world’, but the consciousness that dwells in the body is not our pure self-awareness (which is what we really are and which does not dwell in anything, because it alone actually exists) but only our ego or mind, the spurious adjunct-mixed awareness ‘I am this body’, so we cannot identify ourself with this body-confined consciousness without also identifying ourself with the body within which it seems to dwell. Our mind is the subtle form of any body that we experience as ourself, and any such body is a gross form of our mind, so no body can exist without this mind, and this mind cannot exist without a body. Therefore it is not possible for us to switch our identification from our body to our mind (the consciousness that dwells within it), because we cannot identify with either of these without simultaneously identifying ourself with the other.<br /><br />We can give up our identification with both body and mind only by experiencing ourself as ourself alone (which is what Bhagavan means by the term <a href="#i-am-i" rel="nofollow">‘நான் நான்’ (<i>nāṉ nāṉ</i>) or ‘I am I’</a>), and when we experience ourself thus there will be no one to act and no world in which to act. Therefore in the clear light of Bhagavan’s teachings if we carefully consider the advice given by Nisargadatta in the first paragraph of the passage you quoted, it should be clear to us that what he advises is simply not possible.<br /><br />Though many people who have understood Bhagavan’s teachings only superficially believe that Nisargadatta’s teachings are the same as his, if we consider their respective teachings more carefully and deeply it will be clear that there are many very significant differences between them, and in some cases what Nisargadatta teaches is diametrically opposed to the fundamental principles of Bhagavan’s teachings. What Nisargadatta advised in this first paragraph of the passage you quoted is just one example of this, but I have discussed other examples elsewhere in this blog, such as in <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/the-need-for-manana-and-viveka.html#nisargadatta" rel="nofollow">The teachings of Sri Ramana and Nisargadatta are significantly different</a>.<br /><br />From the pseudonym you use, ‘Viveka Vairagya’, I assume you understand the important of <i>vivēka</i> (the ability to clearly distinguish one thing from another, particularly what is actually real from what seems to be real), but in order to apply <i>vivēka</i> effectively in the context of Bhagavan’s teachings we need to discern and understand clearly, comprehensively and coherently all the basic principles that he taught us. For most of us, such an understanding can be developed only by careful and persistent <i>śravaṇa</i>, <i>manana</i> and <i>nididhyāsana</i> (reading, reflection and self-attentiveness), and when you develop it sufficiently you will be able to clearly distinguish the subtle but significant differences between the teachings of Bhagavan and those of Nisargadatta.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-52024933792390912312016-02-29T15:07:54.990+00:002016-02-29T15:07:54.990+00:00Viveka Vairagya, regarding your latest comment, I ...Viveka Vairagya, regarding <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-should-we-believe-what-bhagavan.html#c4096389518308696533" rel="nofollow">your latest comment</a>, I do not know whether the passage you quote in it accurately records what Nisargadatta said, but in the clear light of Bhagavan’s teachings the advice that Nisargadatta is supposed to have given in that passage is very confusing and completely impractical for several reasons, some of which I will explain here.<br /><br />Firstly he says ‘you must give up your identification with the body’, which is correct, but then he contradicts himself by adding, ‘By all means, make use of the body’. Unless we experience a body as ourself, how can we make use of it? Just as a dream and everything in it seems to exist only when we experience ourself as a body in that dream, this world and everything in it seems to exist only when we experience ourself as a body in it, so whenever we do not experience ourself as this body (such as in sleep or while we are dreaming any other dream), we are not aware of it and hence we cannot make use of it.<br /><br />According to Bhagavan the ego is our illusory adjunct-mixed form of self-awareness, ‘I am this body’, so the very nature of this ego is to experience itself as a body. Whenever we rise as this ego, we project a body, experience it as ourself, and then through its senses we project a world, so this body, its senses and the world we experience through it are all a creation of our ego, and without our ego they do not seem to exist at all, as he clearly implies in <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-ego-is-essentially-formless-and.html#un26" rel="nofollow">verse 26</a> of <i>Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu</i>, which means: <br /><br />“If the ego comes into existence, everything comes into existence; if the ego does not exist, everything does not exist. [Hence] the ego itself is everything. Therefore, know that investigating what this [ego] is alone is giving up everything.”<br /><br />As he repeatedly emphasised, everything other than ourself, including any body or world that we experience in this or any other dream, is just a collection of thoughts or ideas, and the root of all these thoughts is this ego, our primal thought ‘I am this body’, so if we destroy this ego by investigating it, this body, world and all our other thoughts will cease to exist, as he stated unequivocally in <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-minds-role-in-investigating-i.html#av2" rel="nofollow">verse 2</a> of <i>Āṉma-Viddai</i>, which means:<br /><br />“Since the thought ‘this body composed of flesh itself is I’ alone is the one thread on which [all] the various thoughts are strung, if [one] goes within [investigating] what is the place from which ‘I’ spreads, thoughts will cease, and in the cave [of one’s heart] <i>ātma-jñāna</i> [self-knowledge] will shine spontaneously as ‘I am I’. This is silence, the one space [of pure self-awareness], the abode of bliss.”<br /><br />As he implied in this verse, the only way to free ourself from the false identification ‘I am this body’ is to turn within and investigate ourself, the source from which this primal thought has arisen, because when we do so sufficiently keenly, we will experience ourself as ‘I am only I’, whereupon this root thought and all other thoughts will cease forever. Therefore when we actually give up our body-identification all bodies and everything else will cease to exist and only the infinite and silent space of pure self-awareness will remain, so there will then be no body for us to make use of.<br /><br />(I will continue this reply in my next comment.)Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-25539854430015291612016-02-28T19:17:33.396+00:002016-02-28T19:17:33.396+00:00Michael, thanks so much for taking the time to wri...Michael, thanks so much for taking the time to write this latest article. Best wishes, venkatvenkatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-35841681046017577752016-02-28T18:40:33.414+00:002016-02-28T18:40:33.414+00:00Anonymous, regarding the comment in which you say ...Anonymous, regarding the <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-should-we-believe-what-bhagavan.html#c3270622560045620548" rel="nofollow">comment</a> in which you say that Bhagavan’s premise that we are aware of ourself in deep sleep is not at all clear to you, I have discussed this in more detail in my latest article, <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-role-of-logic-in-developing-clear.html" rel="nofollow">The role of logic in developing a clear, coherent and uncomplicated understanding of Bhagavan’s teachings</a>, particularly in sections six (<a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-role-of-logic-in-developing-clear.html#premises" rel="nofollow">The premises of the deductive inference that we are not a body or mind are not inferred inductively</a>) and twelve (<a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-role-of-logic-in-developing-clear.html#sleep" rel="nofollow">How can we recognise clearly that we are aware of ourself while asleep?</a>), but since recognising the truth of this premise is so crucial to correctly understanding all that he taught us, including the practice of self-investigation (<i>ātma-vicāra</i>), I will discuss it further in my next article, in which I will address some of the points in your comment (including clarifying that being aware of ourself while asleep does not entail being aware of time) and also an idea regarding sleep expressed by Poonja in a passage quoted in <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-should-we-believe-what-bhagavan.html#c2414117748420699137" rel="nofollow">another comment</a> by ‘Viveka Vairagya’, namely ‘This is a dull state because there is no awareness at all so you may not recognize it. In deep sleep you forget yourself completely’, which is quite contrary to this fundamental principle taught by Bhagavan.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-81452390289940004952016-02-28T17:42:25.879+00:002016-02-28T17:42:25.879+00:00Venkat, I have replied to your first two comments ...Venkat, I have replied to your first two comments (<a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-should-we-believe-what-bhagavan.html#c7961874202793681206" rel="nofollow">this one</a> and <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-should-we-believe-what-bhagavan.html#c7358418422963782282" rel="nofollow">this</a>) in the last seven sections of a new article, <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-role-of-logic-in-developing-clear.html" rel="nofollow">The role of logic in developing a clear, coherent and uncomplicated understanding of Bhagavan’s teachings</a>, and in the earlier sections of it I elaborated on the comments that I wrote in reply to Wittgenstein.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-40963895183086965332016-02-28T12:20:28.046+00:002016-02-28T12:20:28.046+00:00Nisargadatta Maharaj on Liberation
(from http://re...<b>Nisargadatta Maharaj on Liberation</b><br />(from http://realization.org/page/doc1/doc100a.htm)<br /><br />If you really want to understand this, you must give up your identification with the body. By all means, make use of the body, but don't consider yourself to be the body while acting in this world. Identify yourself with the consciousness, which dwells in the body; with that identity, you should act in the world. Will it be possible?<br /> <br />So long as you identify yourself as the body, your experience of pain and sorrow will increase day by day. That is why you must give up this identification, and you should take yourself as the consciousness. If you take yourself as the body, it means you have forgotten your true Self, which is the atman. And sorrow results for the one who forgets himself. When the body falls, the principle which always remains is You. If you identify yourself with the body, you will feel that you are dying, but in reality there is no death because you are not the body. Let the body be there or not be there, your existence is always there; it is eternal.<br /> <br />Now who or what has heard my talk? It is not the ear, not the physical body, but that knowledge which is in the body; that has heard me. So identify yourself with that knowledge, that consciousness. Whatever happiness we enjoy in this world is only imaginary. The real happiness is to know your existence, which is apart from the body. You should never forget the real identity that you possess. Consider a patient on his deathbed, certain to die. Now when he first comes to know of his disease, say cancer, he gets such a shock that it is permanently engraved in his memory. Like that, you should never forget your true nature — the true identity I have told you about.<br /> <br />A patient who is suffering from cancer is, as it were, all the time silently chanting "I'm dying from cancer"; and that chant proceeds without any efforts. Similarly, in your case: Take up that chant "I am consciousness." That chant, too, should go on without any effort. One who is constantly awake in his true nature — having this knowledge about himself — is liberated.<br /> <br />A patient suffering from terminal cancer always remembers his state and ultimately undergoes that very end; so much is certain. Similarly, one who remembers that he is the knowledge, that he is the consciousness, has that end, he becomes the Parabrahman.Viveka Vairagyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-78453472816614664662016-02-28T06:41:45.557+00:002016-02-28T06:41:45.557+00:00Papaji on Freedom, Happiness, Peace, and Love
(fro...<b>Papaji on Freedom, Happiness, Peace, and Love</b><br />(from www.satsangbhavan.net/main.htm)<br /><br /> Freedom, Love and Peace will be attained instantly as soon as you abandon <i>vasanas</i> - the impressions of the past that you have stored in your memory. If you abandon <i>vasanas</i> right now you can be free and happy, you can be in peace and love.<br /><br />You can live well without <i>vasanas</i>, without desires, just as when you take off your hat or your coat you can live well and nothing is lost. Likewise, if you renounce <i>vasanas</i> - if you renounce the tendencies of the past - you will be well and happy. No time is needed, it is as easy as plucking a petal from a rose flower. It doesn't take time. You can attain freedom, light and wisdom now - instantly you can be free. You do not need to toil endlessly. Penance, austerities, even meditations - just abandon them. This notion that, “I am bound.” has to be dropped and instantly you will be free and happy.<br /><br />This teaching is so simple that it is not a teaching at all. So simple just to pluck a rose petal, just to give up the notion that you are bound, that you have to search for freedom in caves or mountains or monasteries. Freedom is revealed within yourself.<br /><br />A crow sat on a coconut tree and the coconut fell. This does not create a relationship between the coconut and the crow. You may attribute freedom to meditation, sadhanas and effort; but when the coconut fell it fell on its own accord, not because the crow sat on the tree. When you get it you may attribute it to some sadhana, to staying with the teacher, to going to the Himalayas for years of contemplation or to long austerities and meditations, but it has nothing to do with these things. It is simply a question of keeping quiet. Keep quiet just for a moment, for this instant of time, and allow it to happen. Don't interfere. Just keep quiet and watch what happens.<br /><br />This is a very simple way to freedom. You are free. The notion that you are bound has been dumped on your head by your parents, by your priest, by your society. If you get rid of all these instantly you will find that you are what you have always been. If you give up all that you have read, heard, seen, touched or tasted, freeing yourself from all past notions - what will be left? You alone will remain - that which you have always been, what you will always be, and what you are now. The exercise or sadhana or way is not something to be borrowed from the outside. Just keep quiet, keep silent, and you will know freedom from sorrow and suffering. I wish everyone would try this and see.Viveka Vairagyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-32706225600456205482016-02-28T04:16:26.193+00:002016-02-28T04:16:26.193+00:00I am rather bored with all this logical discourse ...I am rather bored with all this logical discourse and would rather just practice Atma Vichara but there is one statement or proposition in Michael's original formulation of Bhagavan's teaching that isn't at all clear to me and I would like discussed; namely that we are "aware" (though not "attentively aware") of ourselves in deep sleep. Are we really?? I for one am not sure that I would say that. And if we claim that we are somehow aware of time passing, what about coma or general anaesthesia. In the latter state there is very definitely no awareness of time passing, hence surely no awareness of o(0)urselves at all. This question has a very large impact obviously on the entire argument Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-35821019319903363152016-02-27T15:32:28.072+00:002016-02-27T15:32:28.072+00:00Gargoyle,
“நிறங்கள் ஓர் ஐந்து உடையாய்” verse 49
...Gargoyle,<br />“நிறங்கள் ஓர் ஐந்து உடையாய்” verse 49<br /><br />“In Sivapuranam, verse 49 I read "Possessor of the five colors"<br /><br />The translation from tamil is that he has colors of the five elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Air and Space). In other words he permeates all five elements being one with them, yet not of them.<br /><br />Sivapuranam is one of the best Bhakthi and Jnana literature ever written and was very close to Bhagavan’s heart. Don’t feel that you are straying from Sadhana by pondering on it. That is Sadhana too.<br />Sivanarulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-39498325112844343852016-02-27T15:12:25.302+00:002016-02-27T15:12:25.302+00:00Continuation of Rumi Sayings:
“With life as short...Continuation of Rumi Sayings:<br /><br />“With life as short as a half taken breath, don't plant anything but love.”<br /><br />“Your task is not to seek for love but merely to seek & find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”<br /><br />“This place is a dream. Only a sleeper considers it real.<br />Then death comes like dawn, and you wake up laughing<br />at what you thought was your grief.<br />But there's a difference with this dream. Everything cruel and unconscious<br />done in the illusion of the present world, all that does not fade away at the death-waking.<br />It stays, and it must be interpreted.”<br /><br />“At a distance you only see my light...<br />Come closer and Know that I am You”<br /><br />“Death is our wedding with eternity.”<br /><br />“Choose to love the one who does not die”<br /><br />“Childhood, youth, and maturity, and now old age.<br />Every guest agrees to stay three days, no more.<br />Master, you told me to remind you. Time to go.”<br /><br />“God is the only Friend for the Soul on the Way to God.”<br /><br />“Oh soul, you worry too much. Your arms are heavy with treasures of all kinds.”<br /><br />“Go find yourself first so you can also find me.”<br /><br />“Grief can be the garden of compassion. If you keep your heart open through everything, your pain can become your greatest ally in your life's search for love and wisdom”<br /><br />“Remember, the entrance door to the sanctuary is inside you.”<br /><br />“In fact, my soul and yours are the same, You appear in me, I in you, We hide in each other.”<br /><br />“I am merely a guest born in this world, to know the secrets that lie beyond it.”<br />Sivanarulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-30516733585902349772016-02-27T15:10:19.473+00:002016-02-27T15:10:19.473+00:00Rumi sayings:
“silence is the language of god,
a...Rumi sayings:<br /><br />“silence is the language of god, <br />all else is poor translation.” <br /><br />“Be grateful for whoever comes, because each has been sent as a guide from beyond.”<br />“Suffering is a gift. In it is hidden mercy.”<br /><br />“Learn the alchemy true human beings know. The moment you accept what troubles you've been given the door will open.”<br /><br />“Try something different. Surrender.”<br /><br />“My friend, you thought you lost Him;<br />that all your life you've been separated from Him.<br />Filled with wonder, you've always looked outside for Him,<br />and haven't searched within your own house.”<br /><br />“Try not to resist the changes that come your way. Instead let life live through you. And do not worry that your life is turning upside down. How do you know that the side you are used to is better than the one to come?”<br /><br />“A wealth you cannot imagine flows through you.<br />Do not consider what strangers say.<br />Be secluded in your secret heart-house, that bowl of silence.”<br /><br />“Let go of your mind and then be mindful. Close your ears and listen!”<br /><br />“Peaceful is the one who's not concerned with having more or less.<br />Unbound by name and fame, he is free from sorrow from the world and mostly from himself.”<br /><br />“Doing as others told me, I was Blind.<br />Coming when others called me, I was Lost.<br />Then I left everyone, myself as well.<br />Then I found Everyone, Myself as well.”<br /><br />“Do you pay regular visits to yourself? Don't argue or answer rationally. Let us die, and dying, reply.”<br />Sivanarulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-48926051848483008952016-02-27T15:03:39.881+00:002016-02-27T15:03:39.881+00:00In Sivapuranam, verse 49 I read "Possessor of...In Sivapuranam, verse 49 I read "Possessor of the five colors"<br /><br />I'm stumped and wondered if this pertains to the primary colors?<br /><br />I have done some internet searching but not found it yet, so thought I would ask the experts.<br /><br />This ignorant jiva can't figure it out...not that I need to figure it out but since I enjoy reading these these verses I keep wondering.<br /><br />Yes, I realize I should be practicing my atma vichara instead of asking this, and I do often, quite often. My wife keeps telling me I meditate too much...which brings a smile to my face. <br /><br />cheers<br /><br />gargoylenoreply@blogger.com