tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post768929965803134411..comments2023-10-16T13:06:42.360+01:00Comments on Happiness of Being: The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: Can we as ego ever experience pure awareness?Michael Jameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comBlogger133125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-9403981310301356082019-11-12T12:32:26.964+00:002019-11-12T12:32:26.964+00:00Thanks Salazar. Thanks Salazar. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04435289281370413861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-53214627953890545952019-11-11T15:53:49.076+00:002019-11-11T15:53:49.076+00:00Anonymous, to further explain the phrase "one...Anonymous, to further explain the phrase "one can have many experiences of self": Or in other words, the mind can subdue/diminish/reduce many times to a greater extend when the clarity of self shines. self never changes, so it only seemingly gets clearer.<br /><br />The presence of a sage can also [temporary] reduce the mind, in some ripe jivas it can induce manonasa what is, from what I can tell, extremely rare.<br /> . .https://www.blogger.com/profile/03243347924405863536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-7768694918508871452019-11-10T23:54:03.530+00:002019-11-10T23:54:03.530+00:00Anonymous, the reason why stories of experiences a...Anonymous, the reason why stories of experiences are irrelevant is because it is by mind. It has the opposite effect of any desired outcome, it feeds the mind/ego and does not diminish it.<br /><br />Your question shows that you somehow expect some "special" consciousness or happening to "experience" self. That is, according to Bhagavan, false. And again, it is the mind with its beliefs and ideas about self which sabotage the simple clarity of self.<br /><br />self cannot be described and everybody anyway already knows self - as self, not as mind. self seems to be clearer the less it is obstructed by mind. That is the seeming process, to "lessen" the obstruction by mind - that obstruction is all of its activities. <br /><br />So, how could mind describe self when its very appearance is obstructing it? <br /><br />Clarity can only come with steady and patient vichara.Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-84249142620797315782019-11-10T22:17:20.650+00:002019-11-10T22:17:20.650+00:00Hi Salazar
My comment about samadhi was directed ...Hi Salazar<br /><br />My comment about samadhi was directed to you. You said that Self can be experienced before destruction of mind. Was curious if you had that experience. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04435289281370413861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-5894243144345067162019-11-10T19:44:19.908+00:002019-11-10T19:44:19.908+00:00Anonymous, I am not sure if that 'samadhi-inqu...Anonymous, I am not sure if that 'samadhi-inquiry' comment was directed at me. If so then I can say that this is irrelevant. Never mind what "others" may experience or not.<br /><br />We have to look inwards and stop these outwards and irrelevant inquiries. Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-64171458768236382482019-11-10T19:40:35.612+00:002019-11-10T19:40:35.612+00:00Bhagavan: "[...] We talk about attaining the ...Bhagavan: "[...] We talk about attaining the self, of reaching God with time. There is nothing to attain. We are already self-existent. Nor will there ever be a time when we shall be nearer to God than now. We are now ever blissful, self-existent, the Infinite. Our consciousness is unbroken, continuous and eternal. It is all maya, self-hypnotism, to imagine that now we are otherwise. De-hypnotize yourself. It is ego, ahankara, which deludes itself that there are two selves, one of which we are conscious now (the person) and one the higher, the Divine, of which we shall one day become conscious. This is false. There is only one self and it is fully conscious now and ever. There is neither past, present nor future for it, since it is out of time. [...]" [From 'Conscious Immortality', page 169]<br /><br />Bhagavan here clearly states that there are no I and i, that is a delusion. Also the ego's notion/objection that "this is the viewpoint of a sage" belongs to the maya or self-hypnotism Bhagavan warns about in the above comment.<br /><br /><br />Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-21884765082273846382019-11-10T16:54:37.785+00:002019-11-10T16:54:37.785+00:00Have you experienced samadhi? If so, please descri...Have you experienced samadhi? If so, please describe your experience. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04435289281370413861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-66636703806549463332019-11-10T16:41:54.456+00:002019-11-10T16:41:54.456+00:00Rajat, excellent comment, the last paragraph expla...Rajat, excellent comment, the last paragraph explains the issue quite well. Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-29960838246943386982019-11-10T12:57:16.577+00:002019-11-10T12:57:16.577+00:00Anonymous,
I agree that in one sense, we do not kn...Anonymous,<br />I agree that in one sense, we do not know our real I (rope) as long as we know ego (snake). But in another sense, the rope is never not known but just taken to be something else (snake) until we see it clearly. <br />Michael said in a video that in atma vichara we are not trying to look for ourself but at ourself (i do not recall his exact words but they were something to this effect). If our real self was something really unknown then we would have to look for it, and we would thereby find something new, but Michael it seems to me is implying above that this isn't so, and we just have to look at whatever seems to be ourself, keenly.<br />Perhaps this is merely a matter of perspective (since the word 'ourself' can be referring either to I Am or to ego), and of course ultimately we have to attend to ego, the I that says I am this body, but I feel it maybe helpful to not see ego and our real self as unrelated, just like rope and snake are not unrelated. <br /><br />In a comment to my doubt about our real nature not being very obvious, Michael had once said, "what the pronoun ‘I’ ultimately refers to is only our fundamental awareness of our own existence (sat-cit), so nothing can be more obvious than that, because our awareness of all other things depends on this fundamental awareness ‘I am’.<br /><br />"In the view of ourself as ego this fundamental awareness is mixed and confused with other things, but that does not make it any less obvious. What is obscured by ego is not that I am but what I am, so all we need do is remove ego, the false awareness ‘I am this’, and what will then remain is the real awareness ‘I am I’."Rajathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10446174099698255476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-30845737198658348902019-11-09T22:51:07.116+00:002019-11-09T22:51:07.116+00:00Asunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05375243105817283476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-87215647100002388292019-11-09T22:11:11.508+00:002019-11-09T22:11:11.508+00:00Anonymous, it seems you equal "I am" wit...Anonymous, it seems you equal "I am" with manonasa (annihilation of mind). I (and many others including Bhagavan) do not because 'I am' or self or samadhi can be experienced before manonasa. And to quote Bhagavan, one can have many experiences of self or 'I am' before realization/manonasa.<br /><br />It is always the mind which interferes, your deep beliefs create your reality. If you deeply believe something then this is the case [for you] until you can let go of that. That includes notions of an i and I. Manonasa will never happen as long as you believe of an i and I, and other notions.<br /><br />And Bhagavan does NOT want us to realize that i is nothingness :-) Actually he wants us to drop all beliefs including that of realization, i, or I, "nothingness" or whatever concept mind is attached to.Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-25450044936509175782019-11-09T13:42:08.267+00:002019-11-09T13:42:08.267+00:00I disagree with you Salazar. Bhagavan wants us to ...I disagree with you Salazar. Bhagavan wants us to do atma vichara only to realize ‘i’ ( i am the body) is ‘nothingness’. So we can never reach the big I when we are operating in the world. if you say that we can easily be ‘I am’ then you might be fooling yourself. The only time ‘Who am I’ qn can yield final result is when we are ready to wake up. In order for that ‘readiness’ moment to arrive, we should have already realized that ‘only God is powerful’ and the small i already should have let go of everything including ‘i’ feeling. So one can be either ‘i’ or ‘I’ but not both. if we are ‘i’ we can only attend to ‘i’ and when all thoughts other than ‘i’ gets destroyed due to atma vichara practice, the big I will reveal by himself. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04435289281370413861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-3812469358734122192019-11-09T12:31:06.009+00:002019-11-09T12:31:06.009+00:00This comment has been removed by the author..https://www.blogger.com/profile/12379570382779918899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-21942326251461495132019-11-08T21:36:41.819+00:002019-11-08T21:36:41.819+00:00Anonymous, you said and I quote, "I think the...Anonymous, you said and I quote, "I think the I am feeling most of us rely on to exist is just ‘I am the body’ feeling. So until we get past that, actual ‘I am’ is unknown."<br /><br />Well, only if vichara is misunderstood or "done" the wrong way. The "I am the body feeling" is only noticed when attention goes to that feeling with subsequent subtle thoughts. There can be no confusion between "I am" and the "I am the body feeling". If that happens one is not "doing" vichara but being caught up in thought processes.<br /><br />In the beginning there maybe a seeming confusion between 'I am' and the 'I am the body feeling' but that is due to the unfamiliarity with something which is no object and there is the tendency [of the mind] to grasp for objects, that goes away with further practice.. .https://www.blogger.com/profile/03243347924405863536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-18687693491675984422019-11-08T21:30:17.310+00:002019-11-08T21:30:17.310+00:00Asun,
to be honest I can't make head or tail o...Asun,<br />to be honest I can't make head or tail of your recent comment of today at 20:13.<br />What is bad in encouraging someone "to be attentive self-aware" ? :-)<br />In which way does being "attentive self-aware" differ from "the practice", the core of Sri Ramana's teachings ?anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-20391766018797608742019-11-08T20:20:04.118+00:002019-11-08T20:20:04.118+00:00Salazar, thanks for telling your view. The inner g...Salazar, thanks for telling your view. The inner guidance of our inherent wisdom or inner sage should ultimately help to overcome all our errors, mistakes, doubts, wrong conclusions and decisions, shortcomings and also our inherent indolence/ponderousness. In the end the waters of the river must flow in the ocean. Are we not destined to reach the safe port of absolute clarity ? :-) anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-64246714561999235612019-11-08T20:13:52.695+00:002019-11-08T20:13:52.695+00:00Anadi-ananta,
I´m glad if you find them to be so ...Anadi-ananta,<br /><br />I´m glad if you find them to be so but, please, don’t take my comments as encouraging you or anyone to be attentive self-aware. I did it once and no more. I talk on the practice because that´s the core of Ramana´s teachings and what this blog is about too. On bhakti/surrender I never talk. It is the closest to silence when not silence itself. <br />.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12379570382779918899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-28297107752401876252019-11-08T18:41:59.288+00:002019-11-08T18:41:59.288+00:00anadi-ananta, vichara is of course the short cut. ...anadi-ananta, vichara is of course the short cut. Bhagavan will guide and lead you, we just have to let him but our stubborn ego thinks it knows better and goes into the way.<br /><br />Everybody is different, I had phases where concepts seem to suffocate me and I guess Bhagavan wanted me to take a break. Without the guidance of a physical sage (alas true for all of us) we have to rely on the inner sage what is much more difficult since it requires a quiet or less busy mind. Unless one is at that point where the mind is not that much anymore a disturbing factor.<br />I say more difficult because when a sage in a physical body tells you to do something there is no chance for misunderstanding, however if one has the same inner guidance the ego loves to jump it and question it, doubt it, and manipulate it. . .https://www.blogger.com/profile/03243347924405863536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-18453382470646007792019-11-08T17:47:54.707+00:002019-11-08T17:47:54.707+00:00Salazar,
indeed I am not exactly a star in practis...Salazar,<br />indeed I am not exactly a star in practising atma-vichara. But just that weakness let me recognize that there is no getting around it. Thank God! I don't have the feeling of suffocation in spiritual concepts. The success of my previous attempts at self-investigation were mostly very meager. As you suggest, consistence and above all depth of my practice must be improved. Because I evidently am not a magician and advances/success don't come overnight I (have to) prepare myself for an arduos journey.:-) However, even such one as I has no alternative than tenaciously stick to surviving all obstacles.anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-5905078776330240302019-11-08T16:25:59.985+00:002019-11-08T16:25:59.985+00:00Asun, thank you for your encouraging comment. But ...Asun, thank you for your encouraging comment. But sometimes/often I feel that I consist of nothing but lack of clarity. If I were to name my main/principal or chief characteristic I had seriously to say it were weakness of self-attention.:-) anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-8241151791766075972019-11-08T14:53:47.562+00:002019-11-08T14:53:47.562+00:00Asun, I have replied to your comment of 4 November...Asun, I have replied to your comment of <a href="#c7339663205002617858" rel="nofollow">4 November 2019 at 23:18</a> in a new article: <a href="https://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2019/11/ego-seems-to-exist-only-when-we-look.html" rel="nofollow">Ego seems to exist only when we look elsewhere, away from ourself</a>.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-1807804231155100712019-11-08T14:53:20.516+00:002019-11-08T14:53:20.516+00:00anadi-ananta, I hear what you are saying and I can...anadi-ananta, I hear what you are saying and I can relate to it. You do not believe that mantra "There is only self" because there is another mantra going on [sub-consciously] and that is "I am the body". <br />The idea behind affirmations is not to see the affirmation as the means to an end but as an aid what is any practice but vichara. Of course important is that you do a practice you feel inclined to, but by all means .... just do some sort of spiritual practice. It will prepare the mind into the right direction. <br /><br />It seems you have a pretty good conceptual understanding of Bhagavan's teaching, now it's time to find some spiritual practice. <br /><br />Again, if vichara seems to hard or not appealing yet it is better to do some other spiritual practice than suffocating your mind with ever more spiritual concepts. People talk about reality while they have not a clue what they are talking about, it is all in their minds :-) So again, I can only suggest to start with some kind of spiritual practice and stick with it for awhile.<br />Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-30161606937414936962019-11-08T13:04:54.512+00:002019-11-08T13:04:54.512+00:00Anadi-ananta,
Words are only pointers. Your consc...Anadi-ananta,<br /><br />Words are only pointers. Your consciousness of being is what the word “self” is pointing out to and your own experience of being is what gives meaning to the word. We just have to cling to self-awareness which is the real and to leave out the word which is just a mental tool for communicating, once it served its purpose of leading your attention towards yourself. What you are is pure subjectivity, that´s the reality. By clinging to words and concepts we are making an object out of the subject and, therefore, attending to other thing than ourself, i.e., we are being negligently self-aware since we never are not self-aware hence, the discomfort and “getting on our nerves” because by clinging to the word which genuine purpose is to lead our attention towards the reality that it names, it keeps us from it. This is what is mistaking self or reality with mind which is maya. By practicing self-investigation, we separate ourself from mind, be it or not. As Bhagavan said, “never mind the mind”. It is also self-investigation or attentive self-awareness what enables us for discerning and separating ourself from what we are not and only appears to be which involves surrendering the individual, the separated entity or I am this body, as well as a process of purification. This is my understanding of mind becoming clearer, just a way of saying that ego or the mistaken awareness I am this body which isn´t but lack of clarity, little by little subsides and only the light of pure awareness remains. <br />.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12379570382779918899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-645474913307586812019-11-07T23:42:39.099+00:002019-11-07T23:42:39.099+00:00Salazar,
you are completely right, one cannot ofte...Salazar,<br />you are completely right, one cannot often enough hear "There is only self".<br />But somehow that mantra gets on my nerves because I feel that only mentally knowing that proposition does not bring me further. Albeit it may sound paradoxically, even spoken truth is sometimes not to my liking.:-)anadi-anantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08815024045988099944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-10476895417783907232019-11-07T18:33:47.327+00:002019-11-07T18:33:47.327+00:00Is it possible to just comment about the teachings...Is it possible to just comment about the teachings and leave out projections of "certain persons"? <br /><br />I have read the term charlatan so many times. Well, that term or idea must have a strong hold on this mind that it keeps projecting it. . .https://www.blogger.com/profile/03243347924405863536noreply@blogger.com