tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post7558564477247921210..comments2023-10-16T13:06:42.360+01:00Comments on Happiness of Being: The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: When this world is nothing but an illusion, why do we run after it?Michael Jameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comBlogger103125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-4053986157399422072020-06-17T12:11:32.974+01:002020-06-17T12:11:32.974+01:00Hello
I am male and 27 years old and have...Hello <br /> I am male and 27 years old and have been following ramana maharishi for past few months . I have reached a state where my mind is being pulled inward and im unable to resist the pull (Its like im dying and so im afraid ).Please somehow guide me.Im badly waiting for your reply.Please reply as soon as possible.arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12301070333554493668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-20483725065801022562017-04-24T14:17:06.513+01:002017-04-24T14:17:06.513+01:00gargoyle,
we should weaken our visaya-vasanas alon...gargoyle,<br />we should weaken our visaya-vasanas along with their root, the ego, who is the one who likes to be aware of other things (visayas) and is therefore unwilling to give up being aware of them forever. Thus we correspondingly will strengthen our sat-vāsanā (our inclination, liking or love just to be, which entails being aware of ourself alone).<br />Or what other do you want to be ?para-bhakti tattvanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-50878467140304467182017-04-24T13:51:10.887+01:002017-04-24T13:51:10.887+01:00It's a shame that some comments found at this ...It's a shame that some comments found at this blog at times turn Negative.<br /><br />I'm sure someone will respond and say there is no negativity, only a difference of opinion.<br /><br />And there is a difference of opinion but there is also negativity.<br /><br />And there is some negativity, regardless of how one may define the word. <br /><br />What is wrong with love and compassion? <br /><br />What is wrong with calmness, happiness, peace, joy, humility, kindness, good will?<br /><br />I would think we are all at this blog because of our love for Bhagavan.<br /><br />gargoylenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-23941910981917121662017-04-24T10:30:16.039+01:002017-04-24T10:30:16.039+01:00"When this world is nothing but an illusion, ..."When this world is nothing but an illusion, why do we run after it?"<br />Short answer: Because the runner is in exactly the same way an illusion.Amithabanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-83971706426722532872017-01-27T17:19:06.879+00:002017-01-27T17:19:06.879+00:00Square selector,
after roaming in the dense forest...Square selector,<br />after roaming in the dense forest of wrong ideas one should actually search for an way out of it. As I already said you should not mistake this discussion-blog for any advertising surface. Durga Ammannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-67220508411118954552017-01-27T16:31:38.594+00:002017-01-27T16:31:38.594+00:00"Breese spent approximately six years in the ..."Breese spent approximately six years in the wildernesses in meditation"<br /><br />Any proof Christine?Select all squares with street signs.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-38992223386315960152017-01-27T15:49:10.759+00:002017-01-27T15:49:10.759+00:00Yan Sionov,
do not consider this blog as a platfor...Yan Sionov,<br />do not consider this blog as a platform for advertising campaign.<br />Mahadevi Durganoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-35464436326701972962017-01-27T14:42:48.195+00:002017-01-27T14:42:48.195+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Yan Sionovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16032823885155621643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-83733367647049121132017-01-26T02:26:46.125+00:002017-01-26T02:26:46.125+00:00So explain how you follow the intermittent happine...So explain how you follow the intermittent happiness of the ego, to the source of happiness?<br /><br />Here is Ramana Maharshi on kundalini:<br /><br />"The yogis attach the highest importance to sending the kundalini up to the sahasrara, the brain centre or the thousandpetalled lotus. They point out the scriptural statement that the life-current enters the body through the fontanelle and argue that, viyoga [separation] having come about that way, yoga [union] must also be effected in the reverse way.<br />Therefore, they say, we must by yoga practice gather up the pranas and enter the fontanelle for the consummation of yoga. The jnanis on the other hand point out that the yogi assumes the existence of the body and its separateness from the Self. Only if this standpoint of separateness is adopted can the yogi advise effort for reunion by the practice of yoga.<br />In fact the body is in the mind which has the brain for its seat. That the brain functions by light borrowed from another source is admitted by the yogis themselves in their fontanelle theory. The jnani further argues: if the light is borrowed it must come from its native source. Go to the source direct and do not depend on borrowed resources. That source is the Heart, the Self. The Self does not come from anywhere else and enter the body through the crown of the head. It is as it is, ever sparkling, ever steady, unmoving and unchanging. The individual confines himself to the limits of the changeful body or of the mind which derives its existence from the unchanging Self. All that is necessary is to give up this mistaken identity, and that done, the ever-shining Self will be seen to be the single non-dual reality."Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08444422146838072196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-45268050702775343852017-01-26T01:34:13.214+00:002017-01-26T01:34:13.214+00:00Hi Ken,
Thanks for the classical argument:
That me...Hi Ken,<br />Thanks for the classical argument:<br /><i>That method is to simply do the very last part of all the other spiritual practices - pay attention directly to the Self.<br />But where is this Self? It is the source of "I" (the latter sometimes termed "the I thought" or "the feeling I am"). So, if we only pay attention to "I", then that is the "direct method". </i><br /><br />This argument would be true if "I" were the only quality of the Self. But... Bhagavan confirms the Self has additional qualities so your argument is false: there are multiple "direct" methods.<br /><br />And of course Atma Vicara IS "a" direct method, just not the only one.<br /><br />Ken, in your previous post of Bhagavan's death experience, Bhagavan said repeatedly that "I", Self and THE CURRENT of energy are identical. Therefore putting attention on "THE CURRENT" (as Bhagavan did) is also <b>direct</b> because it is an aspect your essential nature. Bhagavan said that there are multiple aspects to the Self so your classical argument is false. <br />http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.in/2008/05/bhagavans-death-experience.html<br /><br />Furthermore, your essential nature can be described as Sat-Chit-Ananda aka Brahman. Those who resonate with Ananda might follow Karma Yoga or Bhakti <b>directly</b> to the source. While those who resonate with THE CURRENT might use Kundalini Yoga.... or if their kundalini is awaked gently and naturally through Atma Vicara or Jnana Yoga or Hatha Yoga practice, they could just as well place attention on THE CURRENT as the current is identical with Self and "I"... so sayeth Bhagavan about his death experience. <br /><br />Bhagavan described the current as energy. Others describe the current as Bliss or Ananda.<br /><br />Come on guys: the site here is <b>HAPPINESS of Being</b> so shall we finally acknowledge that ANANDA is a quality of Self?Otherwise... how could there be HAPPINESS of Being ??<br />Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12886674544129003153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-62276824708385283122017-01-25T11:04:40.598+00:002017-01-25T11:04:40.598+00:00Ken,
your last comment is entirely persuasive.Ken,<br />your last comment is entirely persuasive.dawn of knowledgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-35572245263390876942017-01-24T21:42:43.277+00:002017-01-24T21:42:43.277+00:00Quote of Sri Ramanasramam:
"When the mind bec...Quote of Sri Ramanasramam:<br />"When the mind becomes one-pointed and, thereby acquiring strength and power of endurance, easily reaches perfection in the method of enquiry in quest of the Self."dawn of knowledgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-18014403031930192762017-01-24T19:42:34.220+00:002017-01-24T19:42:34.220+00:00Now let me explain the word "route". Al...Now let me explain the word "route". Along the way, it will be clear why Self-Enquiry is automatically the most direct method.<br /><br />Suppose our only goal is to eat a bunch of grapes.<br /><br />We can cut up the grapes, along with apples and oranges and melon, and then boil some sugar until it becomes a syrup, and then mix them all up, and put it in a bowl with a spoon.<br /><br />We could also put the grapes out on a sunny deck until they became raisins and mix with some other dried fruit and nuts.<br /><br />We could also put the grapes into a press, add yeast, put in a barrel and let them ferment for two years, and then drink the resulting alcoholic liquid.<br /><br />All of these would work towards the goal of eating the bunch of grapes.<br /><br />However, the most direct and fastest method would be to just put the grapes directly into our mouth.<br /><br />====<br /><br />The goal for those who want to achieve Self-Realization is..... to realize the Self.<br /><br />What does "realize" means? It means to realize that "you" are the Self.<br /><br />In order to do that, you must directly experience the Self.<br /><br />The obstacles to experiencing the Self are the mind's attention to sense objects and thoughts.<br /><br />One can avoid attending to sense objects, by going to a place where there will be less sense objects, and more importantly, where those objects are known to be non-threatening (so they can be not given attention). A "meditation retreat" is exactly such a place.<br /><br />However, thoughts are internal, rather than external, and we are hard-wired to always pay attention to our thoughts.<br /><br />So, various practices have been formulated to help us acquire the ability to not pay attention to thoughts. These are called "spiritual practices".<br /><br /><i>"Q: In the practice of meditation are there any signs in the realm of subjective experience which will indicate the aspirant’s progress towards Self-realization?<br /><br />Ramana Maharshi: The degree of freedom from unwanted thoughts and the degree of concentration on a single thought are the measures to gauge the progress."</i><br /><br />So, when we not paying attention to either sense perceptions or thoughts, then we can pay attention to the Self. Spiritual practices help us do this.<br /><br />But, is there a direct method, just like in the example of the grapes?<br /><br />Yes. That method is to simply do the very last part of all the other spiritual practices - pay attention directly to the Self.<br /><br />But where is this Self? It is the source of "I" (the latter sometimes termed "the I thought" or "the feeling I am"). So, if we only pay attention to "I", then that is the "direct method".<br /><br />Since all the other practices to realize the Self, must end with "paying attention to the source of I", then it can be said that Self-Enquiry is simply just doing the last part.<br /><br />That is what Godman meant by "only route".<br /><br />In all the grape examples, they all end with putting the grapes (in whatever form) into the mouth. So, the direct method of eating grapes, uses the "only route" - putting the grapes into the mouth.<br /><br />Similarly, Self-Enquiry - paying attention to "I" - is the direct method by going directly to the very last part of all spiritual practices.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08444422146838072196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-58793062096125312152017-01-24T19:05:50.749+00:002017-01-24T19:05:50.749+00:00Roger:
You are missing the distinction between &q...<b>Roger</b>:<br /><br />You are missing the distinction between "route" and "practice".<br /><br />The use of the "only route" phrase has appeared on this blog for the <b>first time when I posted David Godman's paragraph in which it appears, it is Godman's wording that no one has used on this blog.</b><br /><br />In the paragraph following, there is this quote from Ramana explaining that it is not the only <b>practice</b>:<br /><br />"Sri Ramana replied:<br />The goal is the same for the one who meditates [on an object] and the one who practises self-enquiry. One attains stillness through meditation, the other through knowledge. One strives to attain something; the other seeks the one who strives to attain. <b>The former takes a longer time, but in the end attains the Self.</b> Not wanting to shake the faith of a man who had a known predilection for subject-object meditation and, having already ascertained that he was unwilling to take up self-enquiry, Sri Ramana encouraged him to follow his own chosen method by telling him that it would enable him to reach the Self."<br />Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08444422146838072196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-3769524745331320972017-01-24T18:32:03.105+00:002017-01-24T18:32:03.105+00:00Ken:
The statement "ONLY ROUTE TO THE SELF&q...<b>Ken:</b><br /><br />The statement "ONLY ROUTE TO THE SELF" is a conclusion and further elaboration follows. The further detail in no way challenges the summary atma vicara is the "ONLY ROUTE TO THE SELF".<br /><br />You are attempting to deflect attention from your position which is totally inconsistent. I have seen you do this multiple times using deflection and digression for the purpose of obfuscation. Do you have a career in politics?<br /><br />You say <b><i>No one ...has ever said:" No other spiritual practice will ever work !! "</i></b><br /><br />And then you actually say it: self-enquiry ... the <i><b>ONLY ROUTE TO THE SELF!!!</b></i><br /><br />Astonishing!! "Denial" is not just a river in Egypt.<br /><br />The claims "ONLY ROUTE TO THE SELF" place atma vicara on the same level as the many various religious missionaries that come knocking on your door that claim they have the ONLY way, or the many other cults making the same statement. You've got a lot of company.<br /><br />This is very unfortunate to drag atma vicara through the mud as it does have value.Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12886674544129003153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-49007529551379501722017-01-24T17:32:50.534+00:002017-01-24T17:32:50.534+00:00Roger:
My adult son does the same thing of stoppi...<b>Roger</b>:<br /><br />My adult son does the same thing of stopping reading as soon as he gets to a sentence that he views as not true. This can be a problem, because the writer often later explains more fully what is meant by the sentence.<br /><br />The very next portion after "the questioner was still unwilling to accept that self-enquiry was the only route to the self" is:<br /><br />"Sri Ramana replied:<br />The goal is the same for the one who meditates [on an object] and the one who practises self-enquiry. One attains stillness through meditation, the other through knowledge. One strives to attain something; the other seeks the one who strives to attain. The former takes a longer time, but in the end attains the Self. Not wanting to shake the faith of a man who had a known predilection for subject-object meditation and, having already ascertained that he was unwilling to take up self-enquiry, Sri Ramana encouraged him to follow his own chosen method by telling him that it would enable him to reach the Self."Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08444422146838072196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-75658910797867897592017-01-24T16:59:33.238+00:002017-01-24T16:59:33.238+00:00Hi Ken,
YOU say:
No one writing or commenting on t...Hi Ken,<br />YOU say:<br /><i>No one writing or commenting on this blog has ever said:" No other spiritual practice will ever work !! "</i><br /><br />And then YOU post a quote:<br /><br /><i>"After listening carefully to Sri Ramana's explanation the questioner was still unwilling to accept that self-enquiry was the ONLY ROUTE TO THE SELF...</i><br /><br />Your comments appear to be inconsistent: if as you say self-inquiry is the ONLY ROUTE TO THE SELF then this seems to imply "that no other spiritual practice will ever work."<br /><br />Please explain.<br /><br />thanks,<br />R<br />Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12886674544129003153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-48187167857492063362017-01-24T01:16:01.198+00:002017-01-24T01:16:01.198+00:00Hi Ken,
You state that I overreacted to the word ...Hi Ken, <br />You state that I overreacted to the word "merely" and that this is your justification for your making disparaging remarks about my childhood.<br /><br />Apparently, this was all just a play inside your head. I have no interest in the word "merely". So possibly the overreaction was entirely yours and you are trying to put the responsibility for your inner reaction on me. <br /><br />The claims that Atma Vicara is the only, best, most direct for everyone are EVERYWHERE here. Including in your recent posts: such as: <br /><i>"After listening carefully to Sri Ramana's explanation the questioner was still unwilling to accept that self-enquiry was the <b>ONLY route</b> to the Self..."</i><br /><br />I agree often with what you have said above. But... I just do not think that your school has a monopoly on the "ONLY route". Or at least different schools will have their own different and equally direct routes with subtle variations, or perhaps using slightly different language to achieve a similar way. <br /><br />Furthermore... my main concern...when individuals feel that they have the only or best of anything... this generally becomes an ego attachment. Getting the BEST of anything is just the everyday process of acquisition, not a great deal different than acquiring a faster car or a bigger bank account. So there are dangers involved. INWARD PRACTICE is the key and any claims of "ONLY route" which are at the level of egoic thinking must be given up during actual practice.<br /><br />Haven't you been faced with religious zealots who claim that their way is the only way? Can't Atma-vicara-ites fall into the same trap?<br /><br />I agree that traditional kundalini practice can be dangerous and should not be recommended to everyone.<br />I agree that (for me at least) the intricate process of nadis and the complex kundalini teachings can be a distraction and unnecessary.<br />I <b>disagree</b> with Bhagavan that Kundalini practice is always entirely unnecessary: I believe that for some people who have a natural skill at kundalini then it is essential. There are some people who are natural risk takers and so any risks involved with Kundalini are easily managed.<br /><br />For me personally, placing full and complete & totally devoted attention on "the current of energy" for extended periods of time is a big part of my practice and most useful. (this is not really traditional Kundalini practice, just a very mild variant). For me, this is an outgrowth of what I have been taught as Jnana Yoga practice, although, we have our different ideas about that.<br /><br />Now... the Atma-Vicara-ites here will immediately chime in with "But Roger... what about 'I' ? This can't be a direct way unless you are focusing on 'I' !!! As always Roger you are off-base! Get with it bozo!"<br /><br />My response to this question is in your post of Bhagavan's death experience: "I", "Self", and "the current" are not different, they are the same, they are identical. Therefore, attention on the "current" is or can be identical with "I".<br /><br /><br />Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12886674544129003153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-67930731967510233522017-01-23T20:01:53.398+00:002017-01-23T20:01:53.398+00:00I was merely trying to come up with some plausible...I was <b>merely</b> trying to come up with some plausible explanation for your overreaction to the word "merely".Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08444422146838072196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-17721912944181192812017-01-23T19:48:04.734+00:002017-01-23T19:48:04.734+00:00Hi Ken,
We might engage in conversation to try and...Hi Ken,<br />We might engage in conversation to try and find a deeper understanding.<br /><br />But your imaginations about my childhood have nothing to do with a such a search for truth or common understanding. Your words are just offensive and insulting. Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12886674544129003153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-83440672566484729212017-01-23T19:27:02.251+00:002017-01-23T19:27:02.251+00:00David Godman on Kundalini:
"Sri Ramana never...David Godman on Kundalini:<br /><br />"Sri Ramana never advised his devotees to practise kundalini yoga since he regarded it as being both potentially dangerous and unnecessary. He accepted the existence of the kundalini power and the chakras but he said that even if the kundalini reached the sahasrara it would not result in realization. For final realization, he said, the kundalini must go beyond the sahasrara, down another nadi (psychic nerve) he called amritanadi (also called the paranadi or jivanadi) and into the Heart- centre on the right-hand side of the chest. <b>Since he maintained that self-enquiry would automatically send the kundalini to the Heart-centre, he taught that separate yoga exercises were unnecessary.<br /><br />The Self is reached by the search for the origin of the ego and by diving into the Heart. This is the direct method of Self-realization.</b> One who adopts it need not worry about nadis, the brain centre [sahasrara], the sushumna, the paranadi, the kundalini, pranayama or the six centres [chakras]."<br /><br />Michael James wrote about kundalini:<br /><br />" Regarding kundalini, it is sometimes said that all that is described about the kundalini in yoga sastras is effected automatically and without our awareness when we practice vicara. But such explanations are useful or interesting only for those whose minds still attach importance to such phenomena. For those of us who just want to know what this ‘I’ actually is, such explanations are of very little interest.<br /><br />Sadhu Om used to explain that what is called kundalini is nothing other than the consciousness ‘I’ spreading throughout the body. When we attend only to ‘I’, it begins to withdraw from the body, and this withdrawal is what is described as the rising of the kundalini. However, in order to experience what this ‘I’ really is, we do not need to know anything about the kundalini or its rising.<br /><br />Ultimately the body, its nadis (the subtle nerves or channels through which the life-force is said to travel throughout the body and the kundalini is said to rise up to the head) and the kundalini are all just concepts, ideas or beliefs, and our aim should be to ignore all concepts and ideas in order to focus our entire attention only on ‘I’."<br /><br />Ramana Maharshi on kundalini:<br /><br />"The yogis attach the highest importance to sending the kundalini up to the sahasrara, the brain centre or the thousandpetalled lotus. They point out the scriptural statement that the life-current enters the body through the fontanelle and argue that, viyoga [separation] having come about that way, yoga [union] must also be effected in the reverse way.<br />Therefore, they say, we must by yoga practice gather up the pranas and enter the fontanelle for the consummation of yoga. The jnanis on the other hand point out that the yogi assumes the existence of the body and its separateness from the Self. Only if this standpoint of separateness is adopted can the yogi advise effort for reunion by the practice of yoga.<br />In fact the body is in the mind which has the brain for its seat. That the brain functions by light borrowed from another source is admitted by the yogis themselves in their fontanelle theory. The jnani further argues: if the light is borrowed it must come from its native source. <b>Go to the source direct and do not depend on borrowed resources. That source is the Heart, the Self.</b> The Self does not come from anywhere else and enter the body through the crown of the head. It is as it is, ever sparkling, ever steady, unmoving and unchanging. The individual confines himself to the limits of the changeful body or of the mind which derives its existence from the unchanging Self. <b>All that is necessary is to give up this mistaken identity, and that done, the ever-shining Self will be seen to be the single non-dual reality.</b>"Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08444422146838072196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-59161568693273590402017-01-23T19:10:29.051+00:002017-01-23T19:10:29.051+00:00"Sri Ramana’s insistence that awareness of th..."Sri Ramana’s insistence that awareness of the ‘I’-thought was a prerequisite for Self-realization led him to the<br />conclusion that all spiritual practices which did not incorporate this feature were indirect and inefficient:<br />This path [attention to the ‘I’] is the direct path; all others are indirect ways. The first leads to the Self, the others<br />elsewhere. And even if the latter do arrive at the Self it is only because they lead at the end to the first path which<br />ultimately carries them to the goal. So, in the end, the aspirants must adopt the first path. Why not do so now? Why<br />waste time? That is to say, other techniques may sometimes bring one to an inner state of stillness in which selfattention or self-awareness inadvertently takes place, but it is a very roundabout way of reaching the Self. Sri Ramana<br />maintained that other techniques could only take one to the place where self-enquiry starts and so he never endorsed<br />them unless he felt that particular questioners were unable or unwilling to adopt self-enquiry. This is illustrated by a<br />conversation in Sri Ramana Gita (an early collection of his questions and answers) in which Sri Ramana explained in<br />detail why self-enquiry was the only way to realize the Self. After listening carefully to Sri Ramana’s explanation the<br />questioner was still unwilling to accept that self-enquiry was the only route to the Self and so he asked if there were<br />any other methods by which the Self could be realized. Sri Ramana replied:<br />The goal is the same for the one who meditates [on an object] and the one who practises self- enquiry. One attains<br />stillness through meditation, the other through knowledge. One strives to attain something; the other seeks the one<br />who strives to attain. The former takes a longer time, but in the end attains the Self. Not wanting to shake the faith of a<br />man who had a known predilection for subject-object meditation and, having already ascertained that he was<br />unwilling to take up self- enquiry, Sri Ramana encouraged him to follow his own chosen method by telling him that it<br />would enable him to reach the Self. In Sri Ramana’s view any method is better than no method since there is always<br />the possibility that it will lead to self-enquiry.<br />He gave many other similar replies to other people for similar reasons. These replies, which indicate that methods<br />other than self-enquiry or surrender could result in Self-realization, should not be taken at face value since they were<br />only given to people who were not attracted to self-enquiry and who wanted to follow their own methods. When he<br />spoke to other devotees who were not attached to what he called ‘indirect methods’, he would usually reaffirm that<br />self-attention was ultimately indispensable.<br />Although Sri Ramana vigorously defended his views on self-enquiry he never insisted that anyone change their beliefs<br />or practices and, if he was unable to convince his followers to take up self-enquiry, he would happily give advice on<br />other methods. In the conversations in this chapter he is mostly answering questions from devotees who wanted<br />advice on conventional forms of meditation (dhyana). In giving this advice he usually defined meditation as<br />concentration on one thought to the exclusion of all others, but he sometimes gave it a higher definition by saying that<br />keeping the mind fixed in the Self was true meditation. This latter practice is really another name for self-enquiry, for,<br />as he explained in one of his early written works, ‘Always keeping the mind fixed in Self alone is called self-enquiry,<br />whereas meditation is thinking oneself to be Brahman."<br /><br />(from Be As You Are, intro to Ch. 10)Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08444422146838072196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-36238857939618370662017-01-23T19:09:42.666+00:002017-01-23T19:09:42.666+00:00Roger,
Clearly when you were a small boy, someone...<b>Roger</b>,<br /><br />Clearly when you were a small boy, someone beat you up repeatedly while always screaming:<br /><br />"MERELY !! MERELY !!"<br /><br />Because you keep equating the word with totally denying whatever is in the sentence thereafter.<br /><br />And you have been bashing Michael for that same sentence for months now.<br /><br />"merely a mental activity" means "only a mental activity".<br /><br />It therefore does <b>not</b> mean "nothing at all" or "totally ineffective" or "the worst possible thing ever".<br /><br />No one writing or commenting on this blog has ever said:<br /><br />" No other spiritual practice will ever work !! "<br /><br />Here is David Godman explaining Ramana's preference for Self-Enquiry and his view on all other methods:<br /><br />(continued in the next post)<br />Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08444422146838072196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-44536358867698766782017-01-23T18:42:30.225+00:002017-01-23T18:42:30.225+00:00Hi Mouna,
I respect your practice of atma vicara,...Hi Mouna,<br /><br />I respect your practice of atma vicara, it's great that you've found something that works for you and I support your practice! <br /><br />But... we are not "friends" (as you say). Friendship is based on <b>mutual respect</b>. You are certain that atma vicara is the "most direct" way for everyone, including for me. Therefore you don't respect my perspective, my choice, my inner guide. You actually believe that you can make better choices for me than I can. This is not respect or friendship.<br /><br />You say this blog is a place for discussion about Ramana Maharshi. Actually, that's not entirely correct. This is a place for discussion about the sub-set of works that Michael has translated.<br /><br />This is a quite unfortunate situation because only a portion of Bhagavan's works is considered here: all that Bhagavan gave us is not being fully represented. The teaching here is slanted or biased because decades of comments from Bhagavan (ie "Talks" etc) are not considered useful. In my opinion every word from Bhagavan is nectar. The attitude here is not flexible enough, not mature enough to take in ALL of Bhagavan's work.<br />Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12886674544129003153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-3206164158056685762017-01-23T18:17:39.649+00:002017-01-23T18:17:39.649+00:00Hi Ken,
My reply to you did not post for a long ti...Hi Ken,<br />My reply to you did not post for a long time ... so I will rephrase it as I feel very strongly about it.<br /><br />In your marvelous post on Bhagavan's death experience he uses the word "current" or "current of energy" over a dozen times. <br />http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.in/2008/05/bhagavans-death-experience.html<br /><br />He states that the "current constitutes my Self", "'I' being a subtle current", "centre of energy".<br /><br />Atma vicara is all about "who am I?". This has become the ultimate slogan of Atma Vicara and neo-advaita etc...<br /><br />But... in this remarkable death experience discussion... he says "I" and "SELF" _are_ also the CURRENT. We have a NEW description for "I": the current of energy.<br /><br />"Current of energy" is kundalini. Kundalini Yoga is all about culturing the "current of energy".<br /><br />You quote Bhagavan:<i><br />Because every kind of sadhana except that of atma-vichara [self-enquiry] presupposes the retention of the mind as the instrument for carrying on the sadhana, and without the mind it cannot be practised. </i><br /><br />Kundalini yoga has nothing at all to do with the "retention of the mind", it is about culturing the "subtle current" which Bhagavan equates as "I" or "Self". <br /><br />Because Bhagavan IS "the subtle current" (just as much as "I" or "Self") how can kundalini yoga be considered any less than a "direct means"?<br /><br />Michael's logic is that because our essential nature is "I" therefore "who am I?" is of course the most direct way. But here Bhagavan says "I" and "subtle current" are identical, so I tell you that culturing the "current" is just as direct because your essence is also "the current".<br /><br />Bhagavan says the same in "Talks":<br />Bhagavan: <i>The Self is called by different names - Atman, God, Kundalini, mantra, etc. <b>Hold any one of them and the Self becomes manifest. </b> God is no other than the Self. Kundalini is now showing forth as the mind. When the mind is traced to its source it is Kundalini. Mantra japa leads to elimination of other thoughts and to concentration on the mantra. The mantra finally merges into the Self and shines forth as the Self. ...<br />Simultaneously, another luminous and infinite ‘I-I’ will become manifest, which will be continuous and unbroken. That is the goal. It goes by different names - God, Self, Kundalini Sakti, Consciousness, Yoga, Bhakti, Jnana, etc. </i>Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12886674544129003153noreply@blogger.com