tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post6834169136607891291..comments2023-10-16T13:06:42.360+01:00Comments on Happiness of Being: The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: What is cidābhāsa, the reflection of self-awareness?Michael Jameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-41220250737279083702015-11-10T18:10:13.812+00:002015-11-10T18:10:13.812+00:00Michael,
as you write in your reply to Timbuktu:
T...Michael,<br />as you write in your reply to Timbuktu:<br />That is a crucial point: We ceaseless, uninterrupted and unremitting like to experience ourself as a mixture of real self and ego and clutch it.<br />To reach the point of readiness to let go of this illusory experience ourself as this ego and all that it entails is really the favour of the Lord. <br />But how to get the required convinced unrestrained yearning to turn within and experience ourself as we really are here and now ?Tanmainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-91254762972072087812015-09-05T12:02:47.630+01:002015-09-05T12:02:47.630+01:00Thank you Michael,
do not worry about the typo in ...Thank you Michael,<br />do not worry about the typo in your comment. Maybe that you also did not want to repeat the word "that" in the first part of the same final clause "...and thereby find that that it does not really exist",...<br /><br />Your statement "If we really want to, we can turn within and experience ourself as we really are here and now..." is extremely optimistic.<br />I think you meant "as we really are alone" because we always experience ourself.<br />As far as I'm concerned I must concede that I am not able to command me to stop immediately continueing to experience myself as this ego, although my willing to let go this illusion and all that it entails is not just weak.Timbuktunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-67729356529341971192015-09-04T20:44:56.851+01:002015-09-04T20:44:56.851+01:00Timbuktu, when I read your reply I noticed that th...Timbuktu, when I read your reply I noticed that there was a typo in the comment I wrote yesterday: in the final clause of the second paragraph I meant to write ‘everything that it seemed to experience and the value it attributed to such things will also be found to be non-existent’, but by mistake I typed ‘the value its attributed’. I am sorry if that caused any confusion.<br /><br />Regarding what you write about my use of conditional clauses, the reason why such clauses are sometimes necessary is that though Bhagavan teaches us that what actually exists is only our infinite self and that our ego is therefore an illusion and does not really exist, our present experience tells us the opposite story, namely that we are this finite ego. Even if we accept that our present experience is an illusion, we cannot get rid of it unless we investigate ourself sufficiently deeply. Therefore though we are actually the one infinite reality, other than which nothing exists, so long as we experience ourself as this ego we have to investigate ourself in order to dissolve this illusory experience.<br /><br />Hence so long as we experience ourself as this ego there seem to be two possible conditions that we need to consider, and at each moment we need to decide which of them we choose: either we can continue to experience ourself as this ego, or we can experience ourself as we really are. This is why Bhagavan often used conditional clauses, such as in the following verses of <i>Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu</i>:<br /><br />4. உருவம் தான் ஆயின், உலகு பரம் அற்று ஆம்; உருவம் தான் அன்றேல், உவற்றின் உருவத்தை கண் உறுதல் யாவன்? எவன்? [...] (<i>uruvam tāṉ āyiṉ, ulahu param aṯṟu ām; uruvam tāṉ aṉḏṟēl, uvaṯṟiṉ uruvattai kaṇ uṟudal yāvaṉ? evaṉ?</i>): ‘If oneself is a form, the world and God will be likewise; if oneself is not a form, who can and how to see their forms? [...]’<br /><br />9. [...] அவ் ஒன்று ஏது என்று கருத்தின் உள் கண்டால், கழலும் அவை. [...] (<i>a-vv-oṉḏṟu ēdu eṉḏṟu karuttiṉ-uḷ kaṇḍāl, kaṙalum avai</i>): ‘[...] If one looks within the mind [to see] what that one [the ego] is, they [the dyads and triads] will cease to exist. [...]’<br /><br />14. தன்மை உண்டேல், முன்னிலை படர்க்கைகள் தாம் உள ஆம். தன்மையின் உண்மையைத் தான் ஆய்ந்து தன்மை அறின், முன்னிலை படர்க்கை முடிவு உற்று, ஒன்றாய் ஒளிரும் தன்மையே தன் நிலைமை தான். (<i>taṉmai uṇḍēl, muṉṉilai paḍarkkaigaḷ tām uḷa-v-ām. taṉmaiyiṉ uṇmaiyai-t tāṉ āyndu taṉmai aṟiṉ, muṉṉilai paḍarkkai muḍivu uṯṟu, oṉḏṟāy oḷirum taṉmaiyē taṉ nilaimai tāṉ</i>): ‘If the first person exists, second and third persons will exist. If the first person ceases to exist [because of] oneself investigating the truth of the first person, second and third persons will come to an end, and <i>tanmai</i> [the real ‘selfness’], which shines as one, alone [will be experienced as] oneself, one’s [true] state.’<br /><br />16. [...] நாம் உடம்பேல், நாள் நாட்டுள் நாம் படுவம். [...] (<i>nām uḍambēl, nāḷ nāṭṭuḷ nām paḍuvam</i>): ‘[...] If we are a body, we will be ensnared in time and place. [...]’<br /><br />25. [...] தேடினால் ஓட்டம் பிடிக்கும். [...] (<i>tēḍiṉāl ōṭṭam piḍikkum</i>): ‘[...] If sought [examined or investigated], it [the ego] will take flight. [...]’<br /><br />26. அகந்தை உண்டாயின், அனைத்தும் உண்டாகும்; அகந்தை இன்றேல், இன்று அனைத்தும். [...] (<i>ahandai uṇḍāyiṉ, aṉaittum uṇḍāhum; ahandai iṉḏṟēl, iṉḏṟu aṉaittum</i>): ‘If the ego comes into existence, everything comes into existence; if the ego does not exist, everything does not exist. [...]’<br /><br />38. வினைமுதல் நாம் ஆயின், விளை பயன் துய்ப்போம். [...] (<i>viṉaimudal nām āyiṉ, viḷai payaṉ tuyppōm</i>): ‘If we are the doer of actions, we will experience the resulting fruit. [...]’<br /><br />The possibility to experience ourself as we really are need not wait till sometime in the distant future. If we really want to, we can turn within and experience ourself as we really are here and now, so if we continue to experience ourself as this ego, we do so only because we are not yet willing to let go of this illusion and all that it entails.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-47364446340157190062015-09-04T16:09:09.081+01:002015-09-04T16:09:09.081+01:00Thank you Michael for your answer.
You say:
1.&quo...Thank you Michael for your answer.<br />You say:<br />1."the ego and its experiences seem to be of value only in the view of the ego itself", ...<br />2...."so when we experience our self as we really are and thereby know that we were never this ego",... <br />3...."they will cease to be of any value at all."<br />4...."but their value is only as real as this ego."<br />5."So long as we experience ourself as this ego, many things seem to be of value to us, but their value is only as real as this ego. Therefore if we investigate this ego and thereby find that (that)it does not really exist, everything that it seemed to experience and the value its (it is) attributed to such things will also be found to be non-existent."<br /><br />As it is often explained to us that our ego and our real self are not two different things, because what seems to be this ego is actually only our real self - in other words, there is actually no ego but only our real self.<br /><br /> Although it is clear that only our own essential self (atma-svarupa)and nothing else whatsoever is of real value, when by using a conditional clause it is aimed towards a possibly very far moment at some time or other in the future<br />1.("...when we experience ourself as we really are...)" and<br />2.("...if we thereby find that it does not really exist..." all value relations which are associated with the used terms 'ego' and 'real self' become blurred and seem to vanish in front of my eyes.Timbuktunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-8154495980005299542015-09-03T18:50:52.877+01:002015-09-03T18:50:52.877+01:00Timbuktu, in answer to your questions, the ego and...Timbuktu, in answer to <a href="http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2015/08/what-is-cidabhasa-reflection-of-self.html?showComment=1440864927797#c6658926718908687316" rel="nofollow">your questions</a>, the ego and its experiences seem to be of value only in the view of the ego itself, so when we experience ourself as we really are and thereby know that we were never this ego, they will cease to be of any value at all.<br /><br />So long as we experience ourself as this ego, many things seem to be of value to us, but their value is only as real as this ego. Therefore if we investigate this ego and thereby find that that it does not really exist, everything that it seemed to experience and the value its attributed to such things will also be found to be non-existent.<br /><br />As Bhagavan says in the first sentence of <a href="http://www.happinessofbeing.com/nan_yar.html#para07" rel="nofollow">seventh paragraph</a> of <i>Nāṉ Yār?</i>, ‘யதார்த்தமா யுள்ளது ஆத்மசொரூப மொன்றே’ (<i>yathārtham-āy uḷḷadu ātma-sorūpam oṉḏṟē</i>), which means ‘What actually exists is only <i>ātma-svarūpa</i> [our own essential self]’, so what is of real value is only ourself and nothing else whatsoever.Michael Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-51816013402928380602015-08-29T23:16:50.080+01:002015-08-29T23:16:50.080+01:00Good evening,cidabhasa.
I am the original arivu.I ...Good evening,cidabhasa.<br />I am the original arivu.I am shining constantly as 'I am'. Contrary to you I do not ever arise/appear never mind subside/disappear.<br />I am purna vastu, and I shine eternally without ever appearing or disappearing.<br />Thereby I am the source and base for your mind-and world-appearance and disappearance.<br />Sorry, your world shines by the mind. It is non-conscious and devoid of awareness.<br />I regret to inform you that your world cannot be aware of itself or of anything else.<br />In sharpe contrast to me your world cannot shine by itself but is illumined only by the reflected light of awareness that is called your mind or ego. It will disappear in my original bright light of the pure self-awareness that we all actually are.<br />That's how it is when you rise as this mind you seemingly cease to experience yourself as pure self-awareness and instead as finite awareness which is not your original light but only a distorted image of it. <br />I am afraid when you use this reflected light that you now experience as yourself your mind is never aware of itself alone. So you must try to turn and redirect this reflected light back on its source, ourself.<br />Immerse the mind in its source, the one infinite reality, God, who shines within that mind giving light to the mind. Since the mind derives its reflected light of finite awareness from the original light of pure self-awareness, you can know your own actual self by no means other than turning it back within and immersing it into brahman. Than the mind will merge and disappear in our original light of pure self-awareness.<br />Therefore,cidabhasa, catch up on what you have neglected to do and shed the fundamental illusion that you are this mind-ego.nightwatchmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-75631269955747185922015-08-29T21:15:49.132+01:002015-08-29T21:15:49.132+01:00I seem to be a ray. People call me reflected light...I seem to be a ray. People call me reflected light of awareness.<br />My birthplace is you - the nothing but only existing atma-svarupa.<br />From my view I do you suspect that you make fun of my illusory existence.<br />I will be up to your tricks and get on to you.<br />Surely you know how I came into existence. <br />But you say: Be a good boy and give your mother my kind regards. And don't forget to investigate the source from where you rise from sleep and where you subside back into sleep.<br />Do not worry about that you and your awareness are only a phantom and false appearance, because I alone am the original awareness. <br />Do not feel unhappy, but your being is just a reflection. <br />Your shining is only borrowed from my light of pure consciousness who I am aware of nothing other than myself.<br />So I bid you farewell.Forget-me-notnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-66589267189086873162015-08-29T17:15:27.797+01:002015-08-29T17:15:27.797+01:00Michael,
when you say."[...,so since time doe...Michael,<br />when you say."[...,so since time does ] we could never have experienced ourself as anything other than what we actually are" does it mean that all our experiences as the ego ever made are in vain ?<br />What will then the fate and destiny of all experiences of the ego or of all the ego's which ever came on earth ?<br />Although our experiences as individuals may ultimately illusionary, they have shaped our consciousness albeit based on erroneusly supposed individuals. That the source of reflected light is pure self-awareness and what actually exists is only atma-svarupa,does not harm to it.Timbuktunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-84218369461306267412015-08-29T16:09:48.216+01:002015-08-29T16:09:48.216+01:00philologos, your reflection on the splendid reflec...philologos, your reflection on the splendid reflection on reflection is reflected briefly and succinctly, quickly and smoothly. Smile.Titicacanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-4342737374230911082015-08-29T15:50:40.350+01:002015-08-29T15:50:40.350+01:00Michael, now the idea arises, that it would be an ...Michael, now the idea arises, that it would be an interesting and useful task to substitute the term 'ego' by the clause "essentially just our true self" through all your articles. Perhaps some astonishing results may be brought out, which would show new perspectives and viewpoints.pratiphalananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-65716350956880403902015-08-18T02:47:29.841+01:002015-08-18T02:47:29.841+01:00What a splendid reflection on reflection!What a splendid reflection on reflection!philologoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07858724460028562043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-31624883707016122582015-08-17T22:41:10.349+01:002015-08-17T22:41:10.349+01:00Many thanks to you, Michael, for clarifying my ins...Many thanks to you, Michael, for clarifying my insufficient knowledge/experience of reflection(cidabhasa), reflecting medium and reflected consciousness/light in your unambiguous/unequivocal and unmistakable manner.<br />Thanks.Nilakanthanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-36637979351757981932015-08-12T19:07:35.128+01:002015-08-12T19:07:35.128+01:00Dear Michael
I found this very helpful especiall...Dear Michael <br /><br />I found this very helpful especially your discussion on the metaphor of light and why it is often used. <br /><br />When I read your articles / posts you keep tirelessly drumming Bhagavan's teaching into me over and over again, using different words and analogies. But what all your writings have in common is the uncanny ability to explain the teaching for me in a way I can understand as I am sure it is for everyone else who is fortunate enough to have found your blog.<br /><br />For that I am eternally grateful.<br />Thank you Michael<br />Bob <br /><br />P.S - This was quite a short article for you (lol)!! But just as powerful !! <br />Bob - Pnoreply@blogger.com