tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post118625255947156013..comments2023-10-16T13:06:42.360+01:00Comments on Happiness of Being: The Teachings of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi: Upadēśa Undiyār: Tamil text, transliteration and translationMichael Jameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03460943269122289281noreply@blogger.comBlogger271125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-16104662172938767992017-10-22T15:03:51.282+01:002017-10-22T15:03:51.282+01:00Advik,
as you correctly recognize : to put Michael...Advik,<br />as you correctly recognize : to put Michael James in the category of just a translator is somehow being in a complete daze. <br />Goodbye and all the very best to you too !here and nownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-12893473285227012012017-10-22T13:25:40.767+01:002017-10-22T13:25:40.767+01:00Here and now,
Apologies I have just realised I ha...Here and now,<br /><br />Apologies I have just realised I haven't replied to you. You are not missing out (lol)!!<br /><br />Look at the work Michael James has recently posted on his blog and also his previous upload!<br /> <br />I cannot write with such beautiful clarity Here And Now. Rather than answer your questions I would rather point to those instead. I believe it is the right thing to do, why should I stand in between. <br /><br />If you are blessed and can read Bhagavan's original writings like me without the need of an English translation we have two wonderful ways to experience Bhagavan's writings. One is through our own understanding in terms of the actual language and words he used. But we also have the fortune to experience them through Michael James. Michael is not only an extremely gifted and experienced translator but his heart is in his work as you know. His love for Bhagavan and his teaching is apparent and the deep clarity of his understanding is clear to see. He truly is a gift.<br /><br />If I did not have access to his work my own understanding would pale into insignificance even though I can still read Bhagavan's words like him. <br /><br />So regardless whether you have one or both options to experience Bhagavan's work at your disposal you are just as blessed as me.<br /><br />I was reflecting on something that was said to me recently and I have decided to not comment anymore on this blog. But I won't go away completely but instead I will visit daily and just read like I did before.<br /><br />But this is my last post on this bog.<br /><br />Goodbye Here And Now.<br /><br />I wish you all the very best along with everyone on this blog.<br /><br />Adviknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-82974866308375223742017-10-20T19:50:28.088+01:002017-10-20T19:50:28.088+01:00Advik,
you seem to imply that only atma-svarupa ac...Advik,<br />you seem to imply that only atma-svarupa actually exists.<br />From that viewpoint of course never any ego can actually exist.<br />But if we might concede that the ego at least seemingly exists you surely agree that then we would be well advised to cure that "phantom disease".<br />Otherwise we consequently would not even have to apply self-investigation or as you recommend to "toast" to it.<br />here and nownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-71442476014473294302017-10-20T18:38:10.604+01:002017-10-20T18:38:10.604+01:00Here and now,
I take your point.
But does the dis...Here and now,<br />I take your point. <br />But does the disease exist? Before we accept there is a disease we must first look carefully to see if it actually exists and needs to be cured. This investigation is the solution to this phantom disease.<br /><br />Let us toast to our investigation. <br />Adviknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-71173566173028895852017-10-20T18:35:05.755+01:002017-10-20T18:35:05.755+01:00Salazar
[Advik, I don't believe at all that ...Salazar <br /><br />[Advik, I don't believe at all that you take yourself not seriously. If so, why this additional comment directed at me?]<br /><br />I was merely replying to you Salazar as you have just done to me? No harm done.<br /><br />[So you have not learned anything but just succumbed to your egos petty arguing.]<br /><br />Salazar is it my ego? Or is the person Advik the Ego's? There is a subtle difference is there not? <br /><br />['Here and now' exactly picked up on that. And yes, my ego rises every morning too and it has its moments too.<br /><br />As I said before, humility is a very rare commodity on this blog (myself included).]<br /><br />Yes I agree with you Salazar I lack humility also in abundance so let us agree on our lack of humility and look carefully to see who lacks it.Adviknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-22036686979955962242017-10-20T13:54:02.944+01:002017-10-20T13:54:02.944+01:00turiya swarupa, I thank you for pointing out my ty...turiya swarupa, I thank you for pointing out my typo. Yes, it should have been ‘up’ and not ‘us’. Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-48235786444837899192017-10-20T10:26:43.445+01:002017-10-20T10:26:43.445+01:00Sanjay Lohia,
"Without the ego there would b...Sanjay Lohia,<br /><br />"Without the ego there would be no vasanas, and without vasanas there would be no ego, but it is not a relationship of equals, because the ego is what experiences the vasanas and their effects, whereas the vasanas experience nothing, and hence they seem to exist only when the ego experiences them and their effects."<br />The stupid thing is that the ego literally shudders at the thought of the shattering blow by the axe of self-investigation and more or less for its self-protection it<br />insists to attend to and wallow in its vasanas. turiya swarupanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-73659105686066376112017-10-20T10:00:26.992+01:002017-10-20T10:00:26.992+01:00Sanjay Lohia,
regarding your yesterday comment,
&q...Sanjay Lohia,<br />regarding your yesterday comment,<br />"To decide to wear ochre robes and to live the lifestyle that goes with them is so much easier than to decide to give us our ego,...".<br />Obviously we should read ...decide to give up our ego,...<br />turiya swarupanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-22919690642428229962017-10-20T09:33:41.802+01:002017-10-20T09:33:41.802+01:00Vishaya-vasanas are what gives the ego its strengt...<i>Vishaya-vasanas are what gives the ego its strength, so to the extent they are weakened, the ego is weakened</i><br /><br />Our ego along with its <i>vishaya-vasanas</i> and <i>karma-vasanas</i> are our only enemy. In any war we need to clearly understand the strengths and weaknesses of our enemy, before we can engage with them in any battle. Likewise, we need to understand all about our spiritual enemy – our ego and its <i>vasanas</i>. In this regard, I once asked Michael (in April 2014):<br /><br />Our desires in its latent form are just <i>vasanas</i>. Can we not say that both our ego and <i>vasana</i> manifest together, that is, both rise and subside together as ‘I am the body’ thought and our other thought?<br /><br />Michael replied:<br /><br />Yes, the ego and the vasanas do manifest together (respectively as the primal thought ‘I am the body’ and as all other thoughts), but what is the relationship between them? Obviously the vasanas are the ego’s, so the ego is the root of the vasanas.<br /><br />However, though the vasanas are the ego’s, the ego cannot dispose of them without disposing of itself. They are, so to speak, its lifeblood, and without them it cannot survive. They are what gives it strength, so to the extent they are weakened, the ego is also weakened.<br /><br />The thought or experience ‘I am the body’ is the ego, so the tendency to project and experience a body as ‘I’ is the most basic of all the ego’s vasanas: in fact it is the ego itself, and thus it is the root of all vasanas, which cling to it like blood clings to the body, for the mutual sustenance of both.<br /><br />Without the ego there would be no vasanas, and without vasanas there would be no ego, but it is not a relationship of equals, because the ego is what experiences the vasanas and their effects, whereas the vasanas experience nothing, and hence they seem to exist only when the ego experiences them and their effects.<br /><br />Moreover, and most importantly, when the ego attends to its vasanas and their effects, it thereby gives them strength, whereas when it attends to itself, it undermines its seeming existence (and hence the seeming of its vasanas), because it seems to exist only so long as it attends to and experiences anything other than itself. Thus self-attentiveness is like an axe that cuts the root of a dense bush, thereby killing both the root (the ego) and all the branches (the vasanas) that spring from it.Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-24202010889274530582017-10-19T23:45:04.001+01:002017-10-19T23:45:04.001+01:00Mouna,
thank you for quoting Bhagavan's verses...Mouna,<br />thank you for quoting Bhagavan's verses.<br />Happy Diwali(Dipavali) to you.turiya swarupanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-17485025475965823072017-10-19T23:19:52.590+01:002017-10-19T23:19:52.590+01:00Thank you Turiya Swarupa for this important remind...Thank you Turiya Swarupa for this important reminder.<br /><br />Happy Diwali to you.<br /><br />Bhagavan composed two verses about its significance also:<br /><br /><i>"The demon Naraka (ego) who rules hell, <br />(has) The notion ‘I am this body’,<br />‘Where is this demon?’ enquiring thus<br />With the discus of jnana, Narayana <br />Destroys the demon. And this day<br />Is Naraka-Chaturdasi.<br />Shining as the Self in glory<br />After slaying Naraka,<br />The sinner vile who suffered much<br />Because he deemed as “I” the wretched<br />Home of pains, the body of flesh —<br />this is the festival of light,<br />Dipavali.<br />(Translated by Prof. K. Swaminathan)"</i>Mounahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02416580298727681711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-63789840592723979462017-10-19T22:31:55.644+01:002017-10-19T22:31:55.644+01:00Mouna,
according Wikipedia:
"Spiritual signif...Mouna,<br />according Wikipedia:<br />"Spiritual significance<br /><br />Diwali is celebrated by Hindus, Jains, and Sikhs and Newar Buddhists[19] to mark different historical events and stories, but they all symbolise the victory of light over darkness, knowledge over ignorance, good over evil, hope over despair.[7][8][32]<br /><br />The mythical stories told for Diwali vary regionally and within the traditions of Hinduism.[33] Yet, they all point to joy and the celebration of Diwali with lights to be a reminder of the importance of knowledge, self inquiry, self-improvement, knowing and seeking the good and the right path. It is a metaphor for resisting evil, for dispelling darkness and for compassion to others.[34] Diwali is the celebration of this inner light over spiritual darkness,[35] of knowledge over ignorance and right over wrong.[36][37] It is a festive restatement of the Hindu belief that the good ultimately triumphs over evil.[38]"<br /><br />So let us cherish the divine presence of Bhagavan who abides in consciousness-the -supreme, the mauna that radiates the light of jnana which destroys the 'I am the body' limitation. (Muruganar)<br /><br />turiya swarupanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-9289744787493028412017-10-19T22:11:19.505+01:002017-10-19T22:11:19.505+01:00Mouna,greetings
sorry I overlooked the word "...Mouna,greetings<br />sorry I overlooked the word "apparently".<br />What is the meaning and significance of "Diwali" ?turiya swarupanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-28370879265331208962017-10-19T16:55:55.169+01:002017-10-19T16:55:55.169+01:00Happy Diwali Sanjay! (And all!)Happy Diwali Sanjay! (And all!)Mounahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02416580298727681711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-26160238836556905332017-10-19T16:49:18.103+01:002017-10-19T16:49:18.103+01:00Since Bhagavan is nothing other than what we reall...<i>Since Bhagavan is nothing other than what we really are, ‘Bhagavan willing’ means if we are willing</i><br /><br />Yes, this is what Michael wrote to me in one of his emails. He wrote this in a particular context, and therefore we cannot say “‘Bhagavan willing’ meaning if we are willing” in all contexts. Since our outward life is decided by <i>Ishvara</i> (the supreme ruling power or God), and therefore we cannot change anything in our outward life by our will. We may use our will to try and change our destiny, but we will invariably fail in such endeavors. So we cannot will anything opposed to God’s ordainment and succeed. <br /> <br />However, if we say that God willing our ego will be destroyed or if we say it is God’s grace which will destroy the ego, it may not be entirely correct. We can only destroy our ego only if we desire such destruction. Of course, grace or God is always assisting us in this task, but without our love and effort at self-investigation we cannot annihilate our ego. It was in this context that Michael wrote to me, ‘Since Bhagavan is nothing other than what we really are, “‘Bhagavan willing’ means if we are willing”. <br /><br />I will now reproduce below the exact copy of my exchange of e-mails with Michael. This was sometime in March 2014. I wrote:<br /><br />Revered Sir, <br /><br />Bhagavan willing we will become true sannyasis by destroying our egos. Bhagavan has shown us the direct means to such sannyasa. It is up to us to practise and practise and reach our goal.<br /><br />Thanking you and pranams,<br /><br />Sanjay Lohia<br /><br />Michael replied:<br /><br />Dear Sanjay,<br /> <br />Yes, Bhagavan willing it will be so. But since Bhagavan is nothing other than what we really are, ‘Bhagavan willing’ means if we are willing.<br /><br />To decide to wear ochre robes and to live the lifestyle that goes with them is so much easier than to decide to give us our ego, because the price to be paid for the former is the one that the ego can easily afford, whereas the price for the latter is one that the ego is naturally very reluctant to pay. To become willing to pay it requires great purity of heart, and the only way we can achieve such purity is by practising self-investigation.<br /> <br />With love and namaskarams,<br /><br />Michael<br /><br /><i>Happy Diwali to all ...</i> <br /><br /><br /> <br />Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-86529930495052313012017-10-19T16:14:48.036+01:002017-10-19T16:14:48.036+01:00turiya swarupa, greetings
”why do you call deep s...turiya swarupa, greetings<br /><br /><i>”why do you call deep sleep a paradox ?”</i><br /><br />I did call deep sleep a paradox from the point of view of the ego (mind) because it is a contradictory statement, since the ego assumes is experiencing something that actually cannot be experienced neither objectify.<br /><br />I do agree with you that the mind cannot experience deep sleep, that is why I added the word “apparently” at the beginning of that sentence.<br /><br />Thank you<br />mMounahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02416580298727681711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-9882147736165514552017-10-19T14:53:26.380+01:002017-10-19T14:53:26.380+01:00Advik, I don't believe at all that you take yo...Advik, I don't believe at all that you take yourself not seriously. If so, why this additional comment directed at me? Mouna's example was funny and helpful because he was impartial, you just picked up on the same BS I was doing with my last comment directed at you. So you have not learned anything but just succumbed to your egos petty arguing. <br /><br />'Here and now' exactly picked up on that. And yes, my ego rises every morning too and it has its moments too.<br /><br />As I said before, humility is a very rare commodity on this blog (myself included).Purification of mind does NOT reflect on one’s outward behavior, a purified mind is no mind and any perceived behavior is illusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03403745904820287115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-58983462493213514432017-10-19T14:16:40.910+01:002017-10-19T14:16:40.910+01:00Advik, you claim that you don't take yourself ...Advik, you claim that you don't take yourself too serioulsy.<br />We should not overlook that rising as an ego is a very serious disease which we should not take casually.here and nownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-45929751131345017572017-10-19T11:49:15.664+01:002017-10-19T11:49:15.664+01:00Mouna,
Very well said (lol)!!
How can we not laug...Mouna, <br />Very well said (lol)!!<br />How can we not laugh?<br />Don't worry I don't take myself too serioulsy, how can I? <br />Be well to my friend.<br />Your posts are very helpful. <br /> Adviknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-63772891022204847252017-10-19T11:44:28.402+01:002017-10-19T11:44:28.402+01:00Salazar,
[Advik, it is funny how people like you ...Salazar,<br /><br />[Advik, it is funny how people like you get so exasperated about certain things looking into a mirror; like that YOU are not taking your own medicine .... ;-)]<br /><br />Well done Salazar we are making progress as you would say. <br />Yes everything is a projection of the mind. Well spotted. <br /><br />[Why do you think you have the need to criticize my comments?] <br /><br />I don't have the need, everything just happens does it not? What choice do I have? I thought you would understand this from your previous comments about free will and destiny. Have you changed your mind. <br /><br />[Because you think you have understood better and as such pointing out others APPARENT [LOL] lack of understanding to affirm your own. [Since you said ‘apparent’ in your last comment that must mean that you are quite convinced of your “understanding” ;-)]<br /><br />Salazar you are seeing your own shortcomings in me. Please understand this. <br /><br />[When I point out a lack of understanding then that is an invitation to have a mature discussion and not to encounter just a brush and inane dismissal as you did on the other thread. Sorry, but your comment revealed quite clearly your ignorance and instead to possibly question me how I could come up with something like that, you arrogantly and also quite inanely just brushed away my points since they seem to be so outlandish for you that you could not give them any consideration.]<br /><br />Gosh guy, how f.en blind are you?]<br /><br />How can we have a mature conversation when you swear at me? <br />Plus going from previous reference is having a mature discussion with you even possible? <br /> <br />[To tell you to take a hike was quite right because it is a waste of time to have a dialog with ignorance and rigidity.] <br /><br />You sound like a broken record. Of course I am ignorant what do you expect? <br />Are you experiencing yourself as you really are? Are you free from ignorance. <br /><br />Don't take yourself to seriously Salazar. <br /><br />I don't. <br /><br /><br />Adviknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-81955381206213041262017-10-19T11:31:26.404+01:002017-10-19T11:31:26.404+01:00Sanjay Lohia,
Ok, I will ponder a bit more on Bha...Sanjay Lohia,<br /><br />Ok, I will ponder a bit more on Bhagavan's teachings on deep sleep to come at some clarity on this rather abstruse topic.D. Samarender Reddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029954852517079748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-59806820767267979022017-10-19T10:41:27.268+01:002017-10-19T10:41:27.268+01:00Even when it is hardly imaginable to be without th...Even when it is hardly imaginable to be without the mind, let us be "immersed in the flood of bliss in which there are no afflictions, not even of the size of a sesame seed." (Muruganar, The Shining of my Lord, chapter 'Experiencing the presence of my Lord')chintamaninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-59699293120055529622017-10-19T09:37:30.846+01:002017-10-19T09:37:30.846+01:00D Samarender Reddy, you say, ‘Deep Sleep is a bit ...D Samarender Reddy, you say, ‘Deep Sleep is a bit of a mystery to me’. Who is this ‘me’ to whom deep sleep is a mystery? This ‘me’ is our mind. This is understandable, because how can our mind know a state which existed prior to its coming into existence. As the state of <i>atma-jnana</i> is mystery to us, so also is our deep sleep. <br /><br />As long as we experience waking and dream we consider sleep to be our third state, and from this perspective there appears to be a forth state – a state which is the <i>adhara</i> (base) of the other three states. However, Bhagavan says in verse 460 of <i>Guru Vācaka Kōvai</i>:<br /><br />If the beginningless filthy <i>vāsanās</i> [propensities or inclinations to be aware of anything other than oneself], which stood as the cause for dream and waking, are completely eradicated, the [seemingly] dull [or nescient] state of sleep, [which was considered to be] a void that leads one to suffer in a state of misery, will [turn out to] be <i>atīta turya avasthā</i> [the transcendent ‘fourth’ state].<br /><br />So eventually the state of sleep itself will turn out to be <i>atīta turya avasthā</i> [the transcendent ‘fourth’ state]. In other words, sleep is our original state of pure self-awareness, and waking and dream are just temporary superimposition on the state of sleep.<br /> <br />However, once our ego is destroyed, we will no longer experience any waking or dream states, and therefore will remain in eternal sleep or eternal waking, whatever we may choose to call it. As Michael says, the only state that actually exists (which is what is sometimes called jāgrat-suṣupti, ‘wakeful sleep’, turīya, ‘the fourth’, or turīyātīta, ‘beyond the fourth’) is our primal sleep That is, in this state we are asleep to the appearance of any phenomena.Sanjay Lohiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02384912997886218824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-64006194404180674252017-10-19T09:28:28.783+01:002017-10-19T09:28:28.783+01:00D Samarender Reddy,
the idea/concept of a fourth s...D Samarender Reddy,<br />the idea/concept of a fourth state is given only in conceding to our limited understanding. According to Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi there is only one turiya.<br />turiya swarupanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7345918888953765241.post-53243013266220979622017-10-19T09:16:18.476+01:002017-10-19T09:16:18.476+01:00Mouna,
why do you call deep sleep a paradox ?
You ...Mouna,<br />why do you call deep sleep a paradox ?<br />You say "Mind apparently projects or experience three modus operandi (operational modes), waking, dream and sleep."<br />The mind does not actually experience sleep, it only concludes from seeing a gap between successive waking and dream states that there must have been a period of its own absence. Therefore the mind does not actually experience and even testify its own absence. Hence you correctly state that "the mind cannot fathom its own absence."turiya swarupanoreply@blogger.com